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Wonder Woman Movie Official Thread


#21

I think she has a point but I did think at the end when Ares was defeated the opposing sides suddenly hugging was a step too far, especially as history says a couple of decades later they were at it again.

I do think though that the WW1 setting makes a lot of sense in the narrative. WWII was much more a clear good and bad side, the ambiguity of the first world war and the trick they played with Thewlis’s character was quite clever really.


#22

[quote=“garjones, post:51, topic:10086, full:true”]
I think she has a point but I did think at the end when Ares was defeated the opposing sides suddenly hugging was a step too far, especially as history says a couple of decades later they were at it again.[/quote]
Yes, although there were some interesting little points made at various stages throughout the film where they hinted at the idea that a forced settlement to end the war could ultimately be damaging in the longer-term. I thought that was quite a good way of playing on the dramatic irony of audiences knowing that WWII was on the way in another couple of decades and acknowledging the fact that the end of WWI didn’t end war on that scale, by suggesting that the road to WWII was paved by the good intentions of those who pushed for the settlement.

It will be interesting to see whether any sequel addresses WWII or whether they take a different and less obvious route. It might get a bit too Captain America for comfort if they did (and Steve Trevor’s final scene in this movie already owes quite a lot to MCU Cap!).

Yes, the period setting made sense for a lot of reasons, the feminist developments of the time too, although that was only touched on fairly lightly. I do think the WWI elements were well-handled when it would have been easy to seem crass or exploitative. The ‘No Man’s Land’ sequence was quite powerful, I thought, and I think they were right to regularly emphasise Diana’s reaction to the horrors of war (like the scene of the wounded coming home as they get ready to board the boat) to make it clear that they were taking WWI seriously and not just using it as a convenient setting.


#23

I agree with her on “cheesy”, I don’t think it’s a bad word or one that even really means anything.

In the DC pantheon I would rate this movie below anything by Donner, Burton, Nolan, and Snyder, but I like all of those movies quite a lot so it isn’t necessarily a slam. This movie isn’t bad, just kind of boring. Some great bits and nice acting, and I liked that the Amazons had their own fighting style, but ultimately the movie was just a lot of exposition. You can say that about most origin movies, but still.


#24

Here, specifically, it’s about the style of presentation and the glibness of the message.

I have no problem with a “love conquers all” message.

It’s not earnt here though. There’s no real sense of passion or love developing between Diana and Steve, and Steve’s “I love you” as the trigger for Diana to unleash her potential feels something that is bestowed on her from outside rather than something that comes from herself. The dynamics of the Diana/Steve relationship end up being fairly disappointing; they were clearly trying for something more general, but the delivery didn’t do it justice.

And, separately, the quality of the special effects looked at times on par with fairly average Saturday morning kids telly. That may have been the effect they were going for - but that’s what I mean when I said this will stand a good chance of ending up being a Bad Movie Night type film, remembered with affectionate awfulness.


#25

Perception of special effects seems to be a very diverse thing.

I did notice one bit with the lasso that looked a bit ‘computer game’ but otherwise found it was all pretty good. It was less notable than the opening scene of Avengers: Age of Ultron where the action was very ‘weightless’ but by contrast there I thought the emotion in the Hulk animation was pretty ground breaking so you get good and bad.


#26

There were a couple of dodgy special effects bits for me - young Diana falling off the cliff edge (towards the start) looked naff and some of her leaping around later (as an adult) looked quite weightless and jerky in a similar fashion to Thor in that opening Age of Ultron scene. And the Ares fight had a certain videogame quality to it.

However, I found that none of it really bothered me as I was swept up in the story enough that I was able to overlook it easily. A good example of how these things don’t really matter that much if the story is strong enough.


#27

Interestingly I read that whole relationship very differently.

To me, Steve’s status as a soldier and a fighter who participates in the war - but also someone who is capable of great love, compassion and self-sacrifice - was important to Diana’s ultimate understanding of humanity, but it didn’t dictate her actions. As she tells Steve earlier in the movie, “What I do is not up to you.” Fighting and defeating Ares has always been her goal and she continues to pursue that.

But what Steve’s sacrifice ends up doing is providing a powerful counter-argument to Ares’ attempts to convince her that humans deserve to be wiped out because they all have the capacity to wage war and inflict great horrors on each other. WW and Ares are gods who fight over the fate of humanity, and Steve is the human that makes the case for WW’s side of the argument. It gives her confidence that she’s doing the right thing, but it doesn’t remove her agency.

Their relationship is deeper than a simple romantic love story, I think - it’s as much about Diana’s gradual awakening to humanity’s inherent balance of good and bad (and the potential to do both). It’s love on a wider scale: the compassion of humanity as a whole, rather than simply the love of a man and woman for each other. And I think Steve’s expression of love for her is as much an endorsement of her overall approach to the war as it is a personal expression of love.


#28

Yeah, I agree that that was what they were going for, but the delivery of it was muddled. Steve’s “I love you” is presented as being part of that critical moment, and I think that the intent is weakened by his saying that, not strengthened. They had the perfect opportunity to reference a more generic idea of love and self-sacrifice with the watch … but it gets lost a bit.

With the special effects … we ended up seeing a 3D performance, so maybe that affected it more?


#29

[quote=“Mike, post:28, topic:10108, full:true”]
Yeah, I agree that that was what they were going for, but the delivery of it was muddled. Steve’s “I love you” is presented as being part of that critical moment, and I think that the intent is weakened by his saying that, not strengthened. They had the perfect opportunity to reference a more generic idea of love and self-sacrifice with the watch … but it gets lost a bit.[/quote]
That’s a fair point, I can see how that would be seen to be muddling things slightly.

I wonder if that’s why they implied that she couldn’t hear him at first (and only realised later what he had said) - to get away from the idea that his love ‘permits’ her to defeat Ares (which I agree would be problematic), and instead just serves to support her own feelings when she ‘hears’ it back, afterwards.

Possibly, I saw it in 2D. Like I said, even then there were a couple of slightly shoddy-looking bits, but nothing that seriously detracted from the film for me.


#30

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed it well enough, but I think my expectations (having been v low a few months back) had been set very high by the positive pre-buzz, and it then fell short

The posters proclaiming it as “the superhero movie of the year” would not stand up to an interrogation with the lasso of truth :slight_smile:


#31

#32

Visually this was a real step down from Snyder’s movies, which is almost fair considering he didn’t direct this movie, but I wonder if it’s a problem with the shared universe concept. We’ve already seen Wonder Woman in BvS, which looked fantastic, this was more generic to me. Marvel seem to dodge this by having all of their films look equally muted and vanilla, although Guardians seems to stand apart from that and it looks like Ragnarok will join them.
I couldn’t agree more with the videogamey fight comments, as the final versus moment had me thinking of Injustice.
Gadot was great, really did well with the role. I’m only more excited to see what she does in Justice League now. Oh, and Steve Trevor > Steve Rogers.


#33

Hell yeah.


#34

I loved this movie. It’s too fresh to even get into haggling over the bits. I just loved it. I’m going to wallow in the memories.


#35

Going to be seeing this tonight.
We’ll see what’s what…I love all of the things I’ve been hearing about Steve.


#36

Yeah. Steve does know a lot about movie magic and special effects and whatnot. I love hearing about all those things. He always has something interesting to say.


#37

“You let that little thing tell you what to do” was the best dick joke in ages.


#38

This is chock to the hair-line full of spoilers, but it is a neat analysis of the elements of the movie.


#39

Seems like chief Millar didn’t like it so much (check his Twitter).


#40

I’m just back from seeing the new Chris Pine movie. That part was “above average” at least according to him. It was a good joke.

I’m a bit unclear about one point.

He gave her a level up before the final boss battle by giving her his penis, right?