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Venom Discussion (SPOILERS)


#41

Yeah.
Although stuff like them immediately resorting to fist fighting when bereft of everything was among some of my personal highlights in the movie.


#42

I also think we can add Tom Hardy to the list of Brits who have a hard time with the American accent. He’s talking through his nose, slurring, mashing 3 regional accents together. It’s really bizarre and distracting. How can Tom Holland do it but he can’t?

What I don’t get with him, and with Benedict Cumberbatch (who also does a terrible American accent), is: why can’t they just use their normal accents? There is nothing inherently American about Eddie Brock and Stephen Strange, and loads of British and Irish people live in the States.


#43

I don’t even see Hardy as doing accents these days, just silly voices. I can’t remember the last time that he used his normal voice in a movie?


#44

I’d place Holland and Cumberbatch on the same level honestly.
Just very forced “normal” voice.


#45

This is it, I think. Finding an odd, unique voice seems to be part of his approach to building a character. Taboo was all over the place, often like no English speaker you’ve ever heard, but it was highly entertaining.


#46

I do think that’s part of it. I’m not American enough to say how accurate Cumberbatch’s accent is but his voice sounds a bit weird to me, while Holland’s sounds natural.


#47

He sounds good, but way too chipper and good ol’ boy for New York.


#48

I think Holland does a much better job, but admittedly it could be because I’m much more familiar with Cumberbatch’s normal voice.


#49

Whatever the critics think, looks like strange, off-kilter and idiosyncratic worked this time.

Honestly, even the “negative” reviews gave the impression that it was something unusual. We’ll see how well it stands up, but it doesn’t have to compete against that much next weekend.


#50

Let’s go.
I hope for copious deleted scenes in the home release.


#51

On my Facebook feed, various friends are saying they have no idea why it got such bad reviews. Their arguments are that it’s unusual and not the same old same old, and that it has three major action sequences and nails two of them.

I think critics went into the film so sure that it must be bad that they convinced themselves that it actually is.

It’s not the greatest movie ever but it is a throwback to the weirdness and violence of 80s movies in a way that is fairly refreshing.


#52

Yeah, one of the fixed points being that the movie seems to be “inconsistent in tone”…which I think I know what they’re getting at - but in effect the movie is pretty solidly goofy, corny, and humorous from the get go.


#53

Still haven’t seen it so I’m not sure, but maybe people were expecting something more MCU-like? more like Homecoming? =/


#54

Actually - people were expecting it to be more serious, and more dark.
Almost every review I’ve come across name checks “Upgrade” as being “a better Venom movie” or “what this movie should have been”.

Which is patently ridiculous.
Upgrade is a fine horror movie, but it’s way too cold and nihilistic for a Venom movie and people targeting it in makes me think that they don’t really know what they mean.


#55

Yeah I’ve seen those comments and it’s just bullshit… Upgrade is a very good movie for sure, but it’s got NOTHING to do with Venom, beyond starring Tom Hardly… It’s pure Sci-Fi… u_u

Okay yes, there’s a little ressemblance in the fact that the AI does take control of Hardly’s body… which is a bit similar to what they seem to be doing in the movie… but yeah, I mean, it’s just cause of the actors…


#56

It’s not actually Hardy in Upgrade, just the guy from Prometheus who looks just like him.

Anyway, I’ve been comparing the two movies plenty. People like the stuff where Tom Hardy is talking to the symbiote, and Upgrade did that well too. They’re movies with different purposes, and I agree that Upgrade is too mean-spirited to come close to what an r-rated Venom would have looked like, but it has better action scenes (aside from a pretty rubbish chase) and maybe better world building on a much smaller budget. Maybe the comparisons are from that angle?


#57

They’re pretty blunt in thinking that Upgrade was the way to go.

I’ve been comparing the movies too, and yeah - it’s got some superficial stuff.
But thematically the two properties couldn’t be any more different. Not to spoil Upgrade, since it’s a great horror movie, but it stands as an opposite to Eddie and Brock’s dynamic in almost every incarnation.

And in terms of story substance it has more in common with The Crow.


#58

The same complaints could have been and were made about Evil Dead, Darkman and Raimi’s Spider-Man. It may be a case of critics saying they are tired of the same thing and then complaining when they actually get something they didn’t expect.

Also… I imagine most of the tomatometer critics are outside the target for the movie.


#59

Yeah, I know my joke was subtle… but come ooooon… :smile:


#60

So anyways, after my earlier post, I decided “fuck it” and got my lazy ass to the movies and watched it…

As per usual, the image was dark and shitty 'cause of these fuckin horrible cinemas, and also the volume was SUPER high and it kinda bothered me all the way through which made for a very unfomfortable experience, so I’ll be glad to watch it here at home in some months…

Buut anyways, so how was it?

Honestly? Totally fine. I don’t know what the critics were somking this time as well, but this is NOWHERE near a bad picture, it’s NOWHERE near something like Catwoman, and it doesn’t really deserve the shit ratings it got.

Now, is it a great picture? Nah, it’s a rather standard superhero movie and it has its fair share of issues… but nothing too flagrant or dire compared to any other SH movie.

I did feel that feeling of it being like a 00’s (not a 90’s one like people are saying) SH movie, it did kind of remind me of something like Ghost Rider (the 1st one) or the Daerdevil movie, and after thinking about it, I think I figured out why:

  1. It’s actually quite short and so the pace is quite brisk and hectic considering this is a “done-in-one” kind of movie… we get a lot of origin, character establishing, etc… and it really feels somewhat rushed in an hour and half. I really think this movie could’ve used 20-30 minutes more just to let it breath a bit more.

  2. As I said, it’s very much a “done-in-one” like what we had in DD and GR. The plot shares a somewhat similar structure with those movies, but I think it’s more to do with the time they needed to keep, rather than “style” per-se.

  3. The soundtrack… Well since my showing had the volume up to 11 it was impossible not to notice the music, and honestly, that was pretty fuckin’ shit. Standard run of the mill action movie score… It was a real let down and it made the movie feel dated.

Okay that said, let me adress some of the complains:

About the “tonal discrepancies”… I’m sorry but that’s just bullshit… the movie stays consistent in tone all the way through… sure, once Eddie and Venom get together, the movie goes a bit crazier and with A LOT more action, but that’s got nothing to do with tone. The tone of the movie is the standard serious with some hectic action and comedy bits sprinkled here and there…

At no point I thought I was watching a drama or a comedy and I didn’t get any kind of whiplash with sudden tonal changes. Also, I’m fairly sure the movie knows what it is and has a subtle comedic tone to it… I mean, Doctor Skirt?? Seriously?? :smile:

About the dialogues… yeah some jokes and some lines don’t land, sure… but it’s rather okay and consistant, I mean I had more issues with jokes and stupid dialogue lines in DP2 or even IW. It’s not “worse” than any recent movie.

About the comic accuracy/faitfhulness… well, it’s pretty fuckin’ faithful all in all… I mean, considering Homecoming is like the least comicbook accurate of any SM movie, I don’t really see what people are bitchin’ about. If you put a Spider logo on Venom’s chest, he’d be straight from an Erik Larsen page.

About the plot: Again, perfectly standard as far as these kind of movies go… It’s not amazing, but it’s serviceable for an introduction/origin story. Yes the villain is a bit lame and one-note, but it’s kinda like a GotG situation, where the important thing in the movie is Venom, not the villain, who is just a plot-device to have Venom be Venom, so I’m fine with it.

In terms of the origin, you know what? I’m totally fine with what they did… it actually works VERY well, and I didn’t feel like I NEEDED Spider-man, because having Spider-man attached to it is actually quite problematic, so I think this is actually a smarter way of doing it.

In terms of the R-rating… nah, it didn’t need the R and the R wouldn’t have done anything for it except adding some unnecessary gore.

In terms of VFX… yeah, they could’ve been a bit better, you can see a lot of the usual tricks used to mask the FX (like super dark scenes, impaired visibility, etc), but eh, again, not worse than recent stuff (Black Panther… u_u). And honestly, Venom really looks cool, and that was their one job.

Other than that, there are like 2 things I would’ve changed, which were a couple of editing choices, mainly moving the Venom tittle card right before the “6 months later” jump, that would’ve helped the flow of the movie.

And secondly, shorten the fuck up of that rather mediocre motorcycle chace sequence, which was honestly the one truly STUPID thing in the movie… that is the one scene that is genuinly bad, because it’s too long, it doesn’t do anything new or interesting, and the whole things with the drones didn’t make sense and was just a stupid idea. That’s about the most flagrant issue with the movie, if you ask me.

Anyways, in conclusion… it’s perfectly fine. I’d put this movie on the same level as something like Black Panther or Ant-man… as in, if you enjoy the characters go see it, if you wanna see a silly action/SH movie, go see it… it’s not essential but it’s a good hour and half of fun. But again, this is nowhere near Catwoman or Wolverine Origins and might actually be more enjoyable and engaging than a lot of recent SH flicks.

Edit: Oh and this isn’t an editing mess like Suicide Squad, like some people are saying. Like, not at all. It’s got a regular structure, but a very rushed pace, so it might feel a bit “janky” I guess, but like, it’s a time issue, not a “story flow” issue.