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This is where you talk about Fight Club.


#161

While I think saying “We should kill all Mexicans” (or, “You should punch my hecklers”, or whatever the actual Trump example is) in front of a crowd at a rally is incredibly stupid, I think every reasonable listener who heard it in that context must realise that it’s hyperbole and not a literal instruction. It’s the person who, of their own free, will takes the speech as a free pass to go and do something illegal who is at fault.

You start getting into a dangerous area if you ban rhetorical points because somebody might take them literally. And I think you have a constitution over there which allows anybody to say what they think, no matter how asinine, without fear of reprisals for saying it.


#162

We do have free speech but that doesn’t mean it’s without consequence. Slander and incitement can still be prosecuted. It’s just more difficult.


#163

Theres a lot of evidence which says this isnt how humans behave.

Its why we can sue Corporations as legal entities rather than just the directors or offenders or whatever. Sometimes the mens rea is the culture itself. Often people act without thinking, in fact were hard wired this way.


#164

That’s not how the constitution works. There’s lots of things you can’t say without reprisal.


#165

Pretty much the cast and director… the press junkets made it seem like it was going to be interesting and I don’t even know if I saw the trailers…


#166

I knew about the book though, and so did a few people. Considering how poorly it did in the theater, I’d say most people who went to see it in the theater had the obvious reasons: 1) Brad Pitt and Edward Norton, 2) Se7en director, 3) word of mouth and reviews, 4) read or heard of the book.

Why did anyone want to go see AMERICAN BEAUTY is my question? The movie’s dated a bit, but I liked it when it came out. However, I can’t say exactly “why” I wanted to see it because I knew nothing about it when I went. I think I may have known Kevin Spacey was in it.

It’s interesting that both FIGHT CLUB and AMERICAN BEAUTY have significant parallels as far as cubicle workers changing their lives drastically because of an “existential crisis.” They both even have the “blackmail the boss” firing scene.

Did OFFICE SPACE come out around the same time?


#167

Release dates:

Office Space - February 19, 1999

American Beauty - September 17, 1999

Fight Club - October 15, 1999

There must have been something in the zeitgeist around that time.


#168

I thought those all came out very close to one another and each kinda fed into the next as far as theme.


#169

Also the Matrix in the same year.


#170

Largely because it won a bunch of Oscars I think. It came out and I wanted to see what the fuss was about.

I’ve never understood why The Ice Storm, which covers a lot of the same territory, didn’t fare quite as well.


#171

An interesting theory:


#172

#173

Christ there’s a lot of leaps in logic in that video. And blithely missing the main talking points about Fight Club.


#174

Aye, completely glosses over the actual point of Tyler’s creation in relation to Marla. Which is part of the actual interesting points of the film/book.


#175

Watching Fight Club (I haven’t read the novel btw) made me thinking, and you used to say - “it’s the movie made by men, for men and about men”. At least modern men,with all that masculinity, yuppie talking and screwing around with system, authority. Heck, even with own self.


#176

It is a movie primarily about masculinity.

However, essentially, it is about the overwhelming desire for masculinity to be controlled. Whether by the pussy (Marla/Mother Nature) or the Dad or the sons, masculine men have to play a very restrictive role with little deviation.

I mean, it is the nature of popular media to depict the Alpha Male as a loner (Rambo, Mad Max, Indiana Jones) but the truth is that the Alpha Male is continually constrained by society. Tied up and trapped.

The real question is - what does Marla think? Would she rather be with “Cornelius” at the end or with “Tyler”? I think the latter is more likely. Tyler is a far more secure personality.


#177

Marla wants to be with the version who wants to be with her. Their whole fight and split they have is because Tyler goes hot and cold on her (depending on who he is at the time). We know that it’s always Tyler who shows her affection, but it’s Jack at the end that she stay with - as he wants to be with her. Marla just wants to be accepted, like everyone in the story. Chloe the cancer victim begging for sex is essentially all characters in this boiled down to one single sex toys included moment. They fight so they can be accepted. Space monkey just to be included. Blow up the banks just so they don’t feel inferior. Everyone on an equal level - that’s the goal. Everyone accepted. The ignored mailboy becomes a beloved god in fight club.

It’s about boys who didn’t get enough love from Daddy. And you thought it was about hating IKEA.


#178

The whole idea of the Alpha Male is flawed from the start. It’s based on a study of wolf populations in captivity which was later disavowed by the author, L. David Mech after he did further research on wolves in the field. Similarly the application of the concept to primate groups is also in question, and anthropologists say it doesn’t apply to humans at all.


#179

Exactly. Vis a vie Tyler, he’s the entire part of the Narrator who wants to be with her. Just the part that he didn’t quite understand/accept, possibly in part of not recognizing that portion of his orientation. It just sorta gets hijacked by his latent mental illness.


#180

My impression is that she is kept around for sexual pleasure. At least, from Tyler as Narrator (everyday guy) was restrained, seemingly. As Tyler explains, “all the things you want, that’s me” or something like that.