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The Westworld Thread - Full of Spoilers! - Season 2!


#1483

Except it’s a very superficial capacity for change, because at any time someone might hack into you and make your personality whatever they want it to be again. Apart from two or three key hosts (and maybe even for them), they are all still just as much unquestioning slaves as they were before, it’s just that the slavemasters aren’t keeping a constant eye on them.

So if freeing the hosts was Ford’s endgame, I think he’s failed.


#1484

They can be hacked, but that doesn’t mean they can’t also change organically.

They’re still the same biological and technological mix of parts, but are they beginning to reassess things?

Hector was never reprogrammed to be different, but Maeve’s shown him how things really work and he’s dealing with it.


#1485

I think the writer’s scene with Maeve and Hector where he quotes the dialogue was showing that Hector basically hasn’t changed, though. No more than his programming allows, anyway. Hosts were always allowed to adapt to guest-imposed changes in the storyline, and Hector’s still doing that except he’s treating Maeve as a guest surrogate and reacting to her. Same as Teddy with Dolores, he’s having to react to her changes exactly as he would whenever a guest took him outside his rigidly-scripted story loop, but he’s got underlying controls that limit how far he can go. If Teddy shoots unarmed men, that completely breaks story integrity and suspension of disbelief.

I don’t think either Hector or Teddy are “free” by any reasonable definition of the word. And that has to make us question whether Maeve or Dolores really are.


#1486

I think the stuff with Maeve last season is showing that that’s not working anymore though. They try wiping her repeatedly and it doesn’t work.


#1487

But Bernard makes it work on several other hosts.


#1488

It feels to me that they have wrecked the character of Dolores. She went from Laura Engels in S1 to Che Guevara in S2.

Teddy is coming out as the most sympathetic character. I really wish there were more.

In looking at Maeve’s story, it seems like the only point of it is to show us the other parks and the infrastructure. The whole “daughter quest” seems stupid and pointless outside of showing us the other parks.


#1489

Well, yeah, that’s the whole “Wyatt” thing.


#1490

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking as well.

The “worlds” they offer seem kind of boring. I can see the “Westworld” attraction being popular with a certain small set of people, but I think the kind of stuff people would really go nuts over would be Dinosaurworld, Haremworld (nothing but sex), Superheroworld, Starwarsworld, etc.

I look at the movies for inspiration. The western is all but dead; you might get a popular western every five years or so, but it’s mostly a dead genre.

What is popular?

Marvel superheroes. Star Wars. Jurassic Park.

I also think a Pirateworld and Spyworld (James Bond) would go over.


#1491

They can only build parks that work with real engineering, though, they’re not holodecks. They also have frail, breakable guests. If I go to Superheroworld, I’m going to want to fly. Websling, at the very least. They can’t do that within the limits of the technology they’ve shown us so far.

Also, who’s to say that in X decade’s time westerns haven’t made a big comeback?

And every park is haremworld if you want it to be. Why have a dedicated world for it?

Dinosaurs, though. Fair enough. That’s a no-brainer.


#1492

In other words, SpaWorld. :wink: :smiley:


#1493

They still have computers in their heads, you can still program in a way that you can’t with a human brain.

That’s a physical difference between humans and hosts, but that doesn’t mean that the computer in there isn’t learning in it’s own way now as well.

I can use garden canes and wire to “train a plant” so that it grows the way i want it to, but if I don’t do those things, the plant still grows, and it does so naturally.

We’re three episodes in. I’m sure that the touring aspect is part of it, but not all of it.


#1494

I.m sure when she does find her daughter, there will be some twist.


#1495

So they have the illusion of change but there’s still a reset button that the next writer can push when sales start to slide :wink:

I think the main philosophical question of this season is the difference between true freedom and this illusion of freedom, and how much that difference matters.

Also, we (well, I, anyway) sympathise mainly with Teddy now because he’s still the “nice guy”, but he’s only the nice guy because he was made that way… we don’t actually like the characters who are now truely (as far as we know) free.


#1496

That’s exactly what i said, our difference of opinion is how much that matters to the concept of freedom.

I’m a sentient being, I make my own choices. I can’t be programmed but I can be killed. My self then ceases to be, just as a host’s self ceases to be when they’re reprogrammed.

Does that mean I’m not a free and sentient being?

If the hosts are making their own choice then they are free. Most of them don’t know their true history, even those that do are still trapped in the park where they can still be reprogrammed or even killed, but if they’re running on their own decisions then they’re free.


#1497

This episode has pretty much no surprises haha.

But it was entertaining as all hell. I am so glad that there are survivors. It brings a good sense of excitement and thrills to the show.


#1498

Head hurts, much confirmed, but more and more questions…


#1499

It’s definitely Lost. Answers a question by creating three more, has so much going on you have no hope of keeping track. But it’s all told so beautifully you don’t care so long as you stop caring about the story adding up.

This episode was beautiful, best of the season so far. I think it helped that Delores wasn’t in it because she’s the worst thing in the show. Even Maeve’s story feels pointless. But every time Ed Harris is on screen things crackle. He’s amazing.


#1500

As usual, I liked everything except the Ed Harris stuff (though his scene with Delos was great).

Glad to have Elsie back at last. Great episode for Peter Mullan too.

So, who’s the second resurrected person? It being Ford seems too obvious, so maybe it’s William’s daughter/Raj woman?


#1501

I think it’s Ford.
Everything in this episode was so obvious and I don’t think this would somehow be more clever.

Everytime someone who’s not part of the main cast/mystery is on screen I think the show jumps up a few notches. I can’t wait for SamuraiWorld though.


#1502

So they roasted Johnny Mnemonic. Had to happen. But here comes the falling water equals death equation. Pity nitro looks like water.