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The Westworld Thread - Full of Spoilers! - Season 2!


#1143

He is playing a role so that his true aims can’t be uncovered.


#1144

Never seen it actually.


#1145

Ok. Who is he trying to trick? Who does he need to convince that he disagrees with Arnold? Arnold is dead. He would only need to play that role so strongly if he was still arguing with Arnold. (or if he is trying to trick us, the audience)


#1146

Ford had an argument with Arnold: Are the hosts gaining consciousness?

Arnold said yes!
Ford said no!

Arnold dies. Ford suffers because he loved Arnold. So somehow that convinces Ford that Arnold was right all along.

Why does that convince him? Who the hell knows. They don’t explain. Perhaps the suffering that Ford felt led him to feel more conscious, so he assumes that the hosts can also become more conscious by suffering? I dunno.

Anyways, so Ford is convinced. But he doesn’t want anyone to know that he is convinced, because everyone knows that Arnold and Ford had a big disagreement, right? And Ford wants everyone to think that he still disagrees with Arnold, right? He really needs to cover this all up, right? Umm no. No one even knows Arnold’s name or appearance, let alone any disagreements he may have had with Ford once upon a time.

Seems like he was only trying to hide it from us, the audience.


#1147

If youre frustrated by unanswered questions perhaps this is not the show for you.


#1148

They promised it wouldn’t become like Lost.
I started watching based on that promise.
I’m glad that it won’t be on till 2018, hopefully by then I will have a life and won’t bother to watch the rest of it.
I get sucked into a good story, but I need to have good closure at the end. This seems like a show that has great questions that makes you think. But it offers zero answers to those questions.


#1149

He’s trying to keep up the appearance to everyone at Westworld that he is not sympathetic to the hosts so that his actions to guide them toward consciousness go unnoticed.


#1150

Looking back at it, I believe this show was a very well written. I’m a huge fan!


#1151

The thing about Ford and all the others is that they’re not one thing. They’re complex. So Ford is doing something good in freeing the hosts but his method is drawn from his own misanthropic view of things. He’s been twisted by years of guilt and his battles with the board. So suffering is the key to him. It’s tough love, beating his “children” into the shape he thinks they’ll need to be in survive in a cruel world.

But that also makes him a monster; cruel, murderous and in some situations actually sadistic when pursuing his goal.

Felix and his action bug some people, but he’s introduced as someone who’s taught himself about the code that runs the hosts, so when one wakes up and talks to him he goes along with it. He’s also more sensitive than Sylvester, so he helps Maeve out of sympathy for her too. That path eventually makes him an accessory to murder, but his journey is incremental.

There are lots of threads left dangling, but I think the show covered motivations well enough.


#1152

I believe it was noticing that Dolores following the loop back to Escalante that probably convinced him.
She had done it before.

Also, Bernard implying the storage facility was mostly hosts who had begun to become aware.


#1153

I agree with many of your points. I remember asking the Mrs why Felix and the other tech would possibly allow themselves to be blackmailed by a host, given their options.

Unlike many here, i was firmly convinced Ford had sent a host body of himself to take the bullet. Nothing in that characters development led me to think he’d want to commit suicide by host. On the contrary he seemed to have a God complex in a big way and would more likely have sought to live forever.

That said, it didn’t ruin my enjoyment of the show. The ending of Lost however left me feeling robbed…


#1154

Yeah.

I’ve stated this feeling before, but with Westworld it doesn’t feel mysterious.
It’s more like dramatic unveilings of the plot.

Unlike LOST which was all about secrets and twists.


#1155

Well the very fact that it reminds sooo many people of Lost is still some sort of indication :smile:


#1156

Or more a reflection.

:wink:


#1157

of pareidolia maybe


#1158

I don’t get the comparison to Lost at all. I suppose there is a beach at the end, and there are some nice nods to Stephen King.

I thought most of the twists were there for the hosts rather than the viewers. I like the sense of being in on some of the surprises; the anticipation of waiting to see how they impact on the characters. As Steve has said, it’s good that there are lots of threads dangling. I’d like to know what Ford was making in his secret lab.

All the many, many literary references are fun too. Arnold is Roland? It reminds me of what Tolkien did as much as anything – creating a new mythology out of all sorts of influences, but then taking that still further and commentating on storytelling within the story. I’m probably the only one here who is half-expecting “intoxicating” Queen Maeve to lead a cattle raid. Shakespeare did crib from Irish mythology after all which in turn has parallels with Persia. Westworld is probably more about building myth than mystery.


#1159

Exactly.
Westworld is just a regular story.

LOST was all about getting people guessing.


#1160

It all depends on what you mean by a regular story. Lost was a puzzle box or at least it started with that intention. Westworld is very intricate. It does still hold a lot of secrets. It’s just that the emphasis isn’t on getting people guessing. I can’t think of a more ambitious piece of storytelling to compare it to. I think it will be even more rewarding to re-watch. There are so many layers to it. The maze, like all the references and the questions raised by the show, is more akin to a mediaeval labyrinth.


#1161

Maybe Babylon 5, though it was more straightforward.


#1162

It didn’t ruin my enjoyment completely, however it does share similarities with the two worst endings of any series that I have followed to the end: Lost and How I Met Your Mother. Now Westworld was only a season finale, not a series finale, but I fear this finale was a harbinger of things to come.

In HIMYM, there was a lot of character development (with Barney in particular), which was all thrown away in the very last episode.

In Lost, there were tons of central mysteries that were never even remotely answered in the vague ending of the last episode.

Westworld has a combination of both of these flaws. Ford’s character is thrown out in the last episode in a totally non-sensical way that doesn’t fit at all with his previous presentation. AND none of the central mysteries are answered satisfactorily. I think Nolan did not realize that the viewers would guess the identities of MIB and Bernard so far in advance, and he thought that giving us those answers in the last few episodes would be sufficient and they wouldn’t need to answer any of the other huge threads they totally left hanging.