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The oldest debate in sci fi


#1

Is surely Star Wars or Star Trek. The original series stands up today despite the primitive sets and FX. The stories were in the main, top drawer and scripts acted out with commitment. For me TNG hasn’t fared so well but that’s another debate.

I just re watched Star Trek Beyond at home with the family. They all liked it so we revisited the Star Trek reboot which my 9 year old hadn’t seen.

I’m taken aback at how good the rebooted films are. The cast are top drawer, especially Quinto and Pine. Frankly I’d take any of the past three Trek movies over the Force Awakens which for me has got worse with each viewing.

Star Trek Beyond is a solid sci fi movie yet it didn’t do over well which is surprising given how good it is. The previous reboot ST movies for me, far better than any of the previous ST movies post Wrath of Khan (with the exception of Undiscovered Country) which I really liked. Also better than the ham fisted Star Wars prequels.

I’m puzzled as to why Chris Pines management wouldn’t hold out for a super hero franchise lead rather than putting him up for Steve Trevor.

Anyway- are you Wars or Trek ?


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#2

Yeah, I don’t know. That debate’s only existed since 1977, while the debate over which Doctor is better has been going since 1966.


#3

Star Wars isn’t sci fi. Star Trek wins. Thread may now be closed and we can return to debate something proper. Like Man of Steel.


#4

By that standard, Star Trek isn’t sci-fi either. Neither of them have any relation to real-world science


#5

The first rebooted Trek film is indeed better than any Star Wars film save the first two.

Both franchises have a pretty shaky history though. I’ll go with Alien.


#6

You might be overstating the quality of Alien as a franchise there - Being generous and allowing the workprint of Alien3, there’s three good films in there, and then three awful ones and one that’s debatable at best.


#7

Red Dwarf, obviously.


#8

I genuinely thought Robert meant he wanted to watch Alien.

Can you have a franchise with only 2 movies? Some of the comics are supposed to be good.


#9

Star Wars is essentially capitalist. Star Trek is essentially socialist.

Star Trek 100%.

(Neither has ever appealed to me in practice, but conceptually I’ve always really liked Star Trek – that sort of utopian future, all about the weird cultural and philosophical frictions that arise in the a pluralistic society… that’s just much more interesting to me)


#10

I can get behind watching Alien. Maybe we should do a SF movie club?

I lost track of the Aliens comics a loooong time ago, but the original three miniseries (originally called Book 1, Book 2 and Earth War, now called Earth Hive, Nightmare Asylum and Female War after their novelisations) were fantastic


#11

I haven’t read any of them.

A SF movie club is a good idea.

I’ll be diplomatic and optimistic and go with Ghost in the Shell. There’s loads of potential to develop it into a bigger franchise.


#12

I thought the oldest debate is whether or not the term “sci fi” is acceptable.


#13

On point, why the general lack of love for rebooted Star Trek? It’s great…


#14

Trek.
Only Next Gen though.

Always found Wars boring.

Planet of the Apes tops both though.


#15

Having watched the first 2 only…

It didn’t really deliver on the promise of Star Trek. It’s just a big pew pew action movie. Both of them were.

That doesn’t make them bad movies - I enjoyed the first - but I’m waiting for a Star Trek that brings up moral and ethical dilemmas that arise from cross-cultural contact. That seems to me to be much more ‘relevant’ not only to that universe, but also to OUR world, than any red-matter continuity bollocking.

I BET that the upcoming series was going to go in that direction, but without Fuller on full time, I have my doubts now, which is a huge bummer (though I am more excited for American Gods anyway).


#16

Star Trek and Legion of Superheroes have the same potential and, too often, have not really lived up to it in my opinion (as a kind of expert on Legion and a complete nothing on Star Trek)


#17

I am with you there. I quite like some of the New Trek (I hated Into Darkness, but really enjoyed Beyond), but despite having all the trappings and the gadgets, they miss the point of Trek. I think that is mainly because Trek is a TV conceit and putting it on a big screen means it has to be a big action thing with the crew saving the world. The original series wasn’t like that. It had the crew going from place to place, and encountering little moral dilemmas or philosophical conundrums they needed to deal with. The movies overlook that bit and go straight to the spectacle.

I do like Star Wars as well…but Star Trek (largely through the novels) was my gateway into harder science fiction.

@DenizCamp There is a Star Trek/Legion crossover comic…written by Keith Giffen if I recall correctly. I don’t know if anyone has read it.


#18

A SF movie club is a good idea.

I’m up for that too. I just hope nobody minds me skipping out on the Predator viewing.


#19

The thing is, most of the Trek movies are space adventures to begin with. TMP is the only one where they’re dealing with a new alien culture or odd SF event as both the catalyst and crux of the plot. Voyage home had the Whale Probe as the catalyst, but the story was about the Enterprise crew going back in time, Final Frontier had The Great Barrier and Space Satan, but the plot was the conflict with Sybok, and all the other Trek movies are straight up action/adventure films.


#20

Yeah. That was what they became after Wrath of Khan. I am not saying that they are bad movies (Wrath of Khan is one of my favourite movies), just that they were doing something different from the original series. The same thing was true of Next Gen when it moved to the big screen.