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The Music Thread


#743

I always read it as the lady ‘protesting too much’ (ie. both characters being attracted to each other and her trying to pretend to be reluctant out of a fear of appearing too eager and forward), but that relies on you attributing a certain faux-innocent reading to some of the lines.

On face value I can see how it appears questionable.


#744

It depends a lot. In truth it’s not just back to the 1950s, as a youngster the dating game had a strong element of this game of ask and be denied first time and ask again. It’s not necessarily about sexual consent but dating etiquette.

My first sexual frisson was instigated by a lovely girl 3 years older than me, I then waited for more and nothing happened. Realising too slowly she was an exception to the rules everyone was playing to. I’m 11 years married and out of that but I’m not sure how much has fundamentally changed.


#745

Essentially the “No” sometimes means “yes” thing, which is problematic.


#746

Hey, Andrew, it’s cold outside…


#747

Like with most popular Christmas songs, it doesn’t translate well in the southern hemisphere.

(In this case it’s loosely a Christmas song only on account of it being about the cold.)


#748

The temperature is only ancillary to the story. I was going to invite you into my house late at night for a “drink” like the creepy ass song.


#749

That’s the real reason he doesn’t wear shorts.


#750

I was talking to my wife about the Baby It’s Cold Outside thing earlier today. We’ve talked about how creepy I find several times as it’s one of the first things she tends to sing to me me when it starts getting cold outside here. So she sent me this redone version.

It’s interesting that they kept the female part the same and just changed the male part.


#751

That’s certainly where the fun of the song is supposed to be, but I think what we’ve realised at this point is that the line between charming insistence and coercion is maybe not quite as clear to some people, and that getting a straight no for multiple times is definitely the point where you should back up.

I think the idea of “protesting too much” and what goes with it is responsible for quite a lot of the sexual assaults that people are talking about now.

Never once in my life did that. But then, I didn’t have much of a dating life. (Fortunately, things did happen often enough nevertheless.)

I do hope that dating culture is changing, though I expect it still has a ways to go and expect it’s still the way you described it a lot of the time.


#752

Yes and the truth is I did but never liked it or was any good at it. If (and yes it is a massive if) the situation doesn’t become stalkerish or threatening then being the pursued is a lot easier than being the pursuer and the risk of rejection that brings. Which is why I think it won’t easily change overnight.


#753

I wonder what the long-term effects of Tinder and the like will be. Seems to me like chatting people up in clubs is no longer as relevant a skill as it used to be, as young people now find it easier to meet up with someone they’ve already got a level of interest in and see how that works out.


#754

It’s a good point and truth be told I’m too old and out of it to add any great insight, I’ll hand it over to the ‘kids’ like Miqque and Jerry. :smile:


#755

I don’t disagree with that as it pertains to real life, but when you’ve got a song like this where a fictional picture is being painted - and a huge amount of the meaning is in the feel of the music itself and also sometimes the nuances of the performances by the singers - I think it does it a disservice to analyse it (and dismiss it) only on the basis of the lyrics alone.

In particular, I think that the style of this song and the mood of the music does a huge amount to make you feel that it’s a convivial and mutually-agreeable situation for the two characters - and the fact that the two singing parts regularly harmonise helps to emphasise the idea that these two characters are thinking the same way, that they’re on the same page, rather than being at odds with each other.

I get that it’s become a bit of a competitive sport lately to try and point out how ‘problematic’ old movies, TV shows, songs (and so on) are by modern moral standards, and there are times when I agree with that. But this instance seems to involve a lot of focusing on only most negative interpretation of the lyrics, while ignoring all of the other indicators that the picture being painted by the song is one of mutual attraction and romance.


#756

Don’t look at me; I only use tinder to start a fire.


#757

That’s funny, I use a tender to put them out.


#758

#759

Buckingham was fired from the band back in January, but the news did not break until the band announced details of their tour in April. Reportedly, Buckingham’s dismissal came at the urging of bandmate (and former lover) Stevie Nicks, while Nicks maintains that the dispute was over Buckingham’s reluctance to tour due to his solo engagements. “It appeared to me that she was looking for something to hang on me, in order to instigate some kind of coup. Irving told me a couple of days later that she’d given the band an ultimatum and either I had to go or she was going to go,” Buckingham said.


#760

There have been rumours of this for a while and I’m sure there will be a landslide of online debate over it but now they’ve finally broken the chain. Oh well.


#761

groan


#762

I don’t know that one.