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The Iron Fist TV thread! Spoilers abound!


#509

Some Spoilers

I thought that this was pretty fair about the show though.

I thought the second half of the show was a lot better though. Episode 10 was really good.


#510

Thank god, someone is saying it.
Not even being sarcastic.

I’m a hispanic and I don’t mind him being a rich white guy. That’d be silly.


#511

I’m at, uh, ep9 I think, and I liked the twist.


#512

It varies a lot, depending on which comic you are looking at.

In the original run, Iron Fist was revenge-oriented, looking for Meachum and bit for bit he started to get more… human? But he was pretty much REVENGE! machine. Then he lightened up.

There is a tpb coming which has some of the worst IF stories I think, the Book of Changes, which fluctuate between dark and gritty.


#513

I read that earlier today and didn’t really think much of it. I haven’t seen the show, but I’m not sure comparing it to Iron Man in the movies is particularly pertinent, especially given that Finn’s point (not that I agree with it) was that the context around ‘white billionaire’ superheroes has only changed very recently.

I don’t know, it feels a bit like there’s a bit of an echo chamber effect around this show, where the same criticisms that people had before they’d even seen the show are getting repeated and thrown around as fact. It’s interesting how often this seems to happen now (and not just with TV shows, but in a lot of different areas).


#514

Fair enough.

I actually liked the show. I liked Sasha Dawhan a lot as Davos. But I think the show had a lot of flaws. The action didn’t really wow me.

I suspect that Iron Fist will work well as part of ane ensemble in Defenders, where Finn Jones doesn’t have to carry the load as a lead on his own.

Edit: It should be said that Mrs Jones (who knows nothing of the comics character) liked the show immensely.


#515

The article does reject the theory that the basis for people’s rejection of IF is his white-privilege background, but then did we ever really think that was the case?

The actual criticism that is being made is mainly that the characters aren’t engaging enough, and that the fights aren’t staged well enough.

Both are kind of hard to argue with.

I like the show well enough to finish it, and there are interesting bits here and there, but it not a particularly good show overall, unfortunately.


#516

I mean, I’ve seen a lot of articles saying that exact thing.
Maybe not us, but it was definitely a talking point.


#517

[quote=“Christian, post:515, topic:9710, full:true”]

The article does reject the theory that the basis for people’s rejection of IF is his white-privilege background, but then did we ever really think that was the case? [/quote]
No, not really. But using a comparison with Iron Man movies of years past to make that point misses the gist of what Finn was getting at - that something that was once popular (the ‘white billionaire’ superhero) has now been made unpopular due to a new political context.

Although it does seem like she realises that late on, and tries to save it towards the end there:

Like I say, I haven’t seen the show so I don’t have any view on whether the criticisms you mention are accurate. I just didn’t think this article made for a very good rebuttal of Finn’s point.


#518

Well, for one thing after Finn Jones said it, and for the other that was after some people saw it as a controversy that a white guy was cast at all. But if you scan the reviews on the Metacritic site, for example, mostly the problems are that the show is seen as unoriginal, not very well-written, and that the fighting isn’t impressive. That’s what the reviewers were actually interested in, and I think the same certainly goes for the average viewer.

There was controversy about Strange, too - another rich white guy, and one who spouts zen-like wisdom to boot! - and that movie was still well-received and successful.

EDIT:

Well, Finn’s point is hard to rebut, because that change is a very recent thing - it’ll be a while until we have more white-millionaire characters debuting on TV. So whether you want to go with Finn’s theory is a matter of belief, as of this point, and will stay so for a while.

But the article points out the actual problems of the show pretty well, and Marvel would do well to blame those and not Trump if and when they think about making a second season of this show.


#519

I’m not saying that it’s a valid complaint or that it was the only complaint, just that it was a complaint.


#520

Yes, I agree. So I think it was probably a mistake to build an article around trying to rebut it. :slight_smile:


#521

Well… not particularly, I think, because if you follow Jones’ argument, that’d mean that they did everything else right (or right enough) with the show and shouldn’t change a thing.

Which would be a really bad decision. So, you know, I think people have the right idea when they point that out.


#522

Episode 4, 5 and 6

I’m still enjoying the show but there are some pretty deep flaws.

I like the relationship dynamic (and how it is in flux) between Ward, Joy and Danny. Ward is becoming more sympathetic while Joy’s motivations are becoming more cloudy. The opioid addiction storyline with Ward seems apropos but so far it’s been handled very oddly. Are we supposed to assume that he used the synthetic heroin that Danny gave him when Joy finds him in a stupor or is that something still coming?

The Iron Fist as the natural enemy of the Hand thing is something new to me. Has that been used in the comics before or is it something new to the TV series? I assume the Hand will be the enemy that the Defenders are brought together to fight. Is Madame Gao meant to be the Crane Mother or is she a bit like Claire and just a new creation similar to an existing character? In Episode 6, Madame Gao refers to her master. I would think that’s a reveal they are holding back. Maybe Elektra?

The fights in Episode 6 were a huge let down. It seems like they were going for a combination of Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon with a little bit of Jackie Chan thrown in. I don’t feel like they came anywhere close. I thought this would be where we saw all the stops pulled out and see what the Iron Fist was capable of. Maybe the decades of martial arts films have made me expect more but all three fights just seemed anticlimactic. There didn’t seem to be much difference in the feel to Rza’s directing as compared to the other episodes either.

It continues to be clear that they really should have spent some more money and had a bit more K’un Lun. So far Danny has talked about the path to attaining the Iron Fist and referenced Shou-Lao in passing but hasn’t connected the two. Does that happen later?

Despite my above complaints, I am still mostly enjoying the series and will finish it out. I do think they could have either structured it much differently or thrown some more money at it.


#523

That’s my thinking on this. For a martial arts based superhero, you need to go big or go home with the action scenes. It is going to be tough on a TV budget but we are watching this on Netflix where we can watch Jackie Chan, The Raid, One Bak…etc.


#524

I’m just bored with the characters. Haven’t even got to the point of being bored with the fights yet.

I don’t blame the cast, the cost or even the character origin right now, just the writing.

So, I’m probably skipping the rest of this and waiting for ‘The Defenders’ to do it properly. I hope.


#525

It feels to me like the writers were trying to write (or possibly rewrite) around the budget in places though. I don’t think anyone would realize how poor the dialog was if there were a really kick ass fight or a stunning visual of Danny plunging his fist into Shao-Lao’s heart.

So far the best we’ve gotten are a few doors being blown apart.


#526

#527

It’s a bit harsh to say, but it really feels like the production team didn’t really care very much and just crapped out something cheap as they assumed the audience were a guarantee. That’s a problem with Netflix in general I think - subscriptions don’t live or die on an individual series (unlike regular TV where ratings are everything). So they can churn out passable entertainment so long as they keep people from dropping their service. Just like their movies and other TV shows often feel like bargain basement items rather than top shelf movies & shows. I know the cost is pretty low compared to cable, and I’m sure they have a decent chunk of their customer base that don’t use Netflix very often, but they have so many new shows and so few of them are really outstanding - I hope they work hard to compete at a high level rather than taking the easy path.


#528