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The Iron Fist TV thread! Spoilers abound!


#222

Quote I found lurking on the Byrne Robotics forums:

‘Into The Badlands’ is EVERYTHING Iron Fist should be.

Never really saw ‘Into The Badlands’ and I’ve only seen clips of IF on Youtube, so I can’t really judge,


#223

The K’un L’un bits of the show kept reminding me of the Wisest Kid Campbell’s soup commercials. That might not be the only thing they have in common. :wink:


#224

Is that the same actor as Wendell Rand???


#225

Yep.

(Sorry best picture I could find.)


#226

I would hope they are only referring to the fights, which are legitimately amazing. Otherwise the acting and writing in Badlands isn’t great.


#227

Haha awesome. I did an Iron Fist video (one that should have been up by now obviously, but unfortunately I am the mortal enemy of bad luck), I might slip that wee nugget in if I can before I upload it.


#228

Lewis Tan, the actor who played the drunken master dude, also auditioned for Danny Rand. How awesome would that have been? That dude just oozed charisma.


#229

Yeah - I already knew that.

I don’t know. I don’t think Tan’s a very good actor. He’s a stunt-man, not an actor.

He was fine as Zhou Cheng, and that’s probably the best fight in the series - but I think he would have sucked as Danny.

I don’t really like Finn Jones either - I would have loved to have seen the Ray Park movie that was in development about 15 years ago, but he’s way too old now. There were a handful of people going for the role, but there wasn’t anyone I think would have been perfect.


#230

Except he was great as Zhou Cheng. Like, really great. He was funny, charismatic, cool. His short scene left me wanting more and that hasn’t been true of any time that Jones has been on screen, no exaggeration.


#231

I think that had a lot to do with the part and the fight style itself. I have a feeling that if just about anyone else was in that role, we would be saying the same thing. The actor just had more “meat” to play with.

PHRASING, I know.


#232

That’s fine.

He would have been a shit Danny Rand though, I think. He played the drunken master bit fine, but it’s not really that hard a part, I don’t think (see every Kung Fu movie ever). For a while they were just casting stunt-men like Alain Moussi from Kickboxer and Christian Howard from Street Fighter. Tan was in contention then - production moved in a different direction.

It’s hard casting for a show like this because you need someone who can convincingly do the fight-scenes (since you’re not using the mask) and can actually act. For a while it looked like Luke Bracey and a few other Australian actors might clinch the part (some who I also know, and knew they were going for the part) - I kind of wish Bracey had got it because I think he would have turned in a more likeable, less confounded Danny - but the worry seemed to be casting someone that would come across too jocky, or boof-headish - you would have got that with Tan in spades, and double so for Moussi and Howard.

As I said, no one who I know went for the role seemed like perfect fit. Tan’s scene was fun, and we can play hypothetical, but I think he would have delivered a really disappointing performance that would have given tons of fodder for all the folks using this as a platform for identity politics.

EDIT: What I do know about the folks that went in for casting is that very few actually “looked” like the comic-character. It doesn’t seem like Marvel were too interested in casting a look-alike. But then again we got Ritter playing Jessica Jones and Charlie Cox isn’t a redhead.


#233

Being funny, and cool, and threatening, and recognizably drunk all at once doesn’t seem that easy to me. It’s not like he played the part like Jackie Chan. There was a swagger there, an edge.

Like I said, the man has charisma. That’s important for a superhero lead, and it’s the main thing Finn Jones lacks.


#234

If you liked that scene, that’s cool. But I think you’re stretching it a bit far to say he oozed charisma.

It was a fun scene - I don’t think he would make a good lead.

I suppose we’ll see though - usually if someone has a break-out scene that people think is amazing, then their agent gets lots of phone-calls. So, if there are others out there who think similarly, it’s probably very good being Tan right now. Seems to be less fun being Finn Jones.


#235

Actually, I found him a bit too over the top, even considering he was playing a drunken master, but considering what they were going for in that scene, it was okay. Ultimately, he didn’t get the job, and it might not have been a matter of ethicity, or it might who knows…

I’m really sick as shit about this asian Danny crap “controversy”. Yeah we get it, they wanted to switch out one stereotype for another… good, but it’s done, so ugh please stop it.

Also, another “funny” thing is how a lot of people complain about dark superheros and how Cavill’s Superman is too dark and Broody… then we get a super positive optimistic guy in IF, and suddenly he’s boring, and too naive, etc… Which I guess proves people don’t know what they want =/


#236

It’s more about the portrayal.

I agree with those that criticise this interpretation as being too child-like and prone to tantrums. I didn’t really like that - if there’s one really important element that Jones lacks in comparison to Cox, Ritter and Colter - it’s that he isn’t “cool” - that’s going to be pretty important when facing a boatload of pre-prepared criticism ready to shout down the portrayal as a spoiled little rich boy white saviour. He absolutely lacked charm and that was the real cost for the series.

I also agree with those that compare Jones unfavourably to Charlie Cox - Cox was much better at charming the audience, and isn’t in that dissimilar a situation (trained by a secret martial artist to fight mysterious clan of ninjas) although that’s much less a core element of Daredevil’s mythology then Iron Fists (sans The Hand).

I think Iron Fist suffered a lot for lots of reasons - the weakest show-runner, the weakest lead, it was timed wrong by coming out last so critics were au fait with the plotting of these seasons and stocked up with criticisms they hadn’t properly leveled at the other series, it wasn’t ever going to be a show to celebrate empowerment like Jessica Jones or Luke Cage, and it’s a bad time to write a billionaire hero not called Batman.

This really should have been Kill Bill meets Batman meets Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. We got more Suits meets Karate Kid with a touch of Mortal Kombat.


#237

It reminds me of when “Chuck” first came out…That opening scene was so unlike any other TV going on at the time, I remember fellow nerds going apeshit for Matt Boomer “He should be the next James Bond!” “He should be the next Superman!”


#238

One thing I just realized–this is the first Marvel Netflix show that hasn’t split up the POV significantly. DD had storylines for Matt, Fisk, Karen, Ben Urich, Foggy, Claire, and Frank Castle. JJ had storylines for Jessica plus Simpson, Trish, and Kilgrave (also Malcolm? Can’t remember). LC split its focus between Luke, Claire, Misty, Cottonmouth, and Mariah.

Iron Fist is almost all Danny; Colleen and Claire fold into his story with very few deviations into their own shit. The Meachums do have their own storyline, although it’s really Ward’s; Harold is Ward’s foil and Joy provides the stakes. Their side of the story is also nowhere near as textured as Kingpin or Punisher or Cottonmouth/Mariah. In fact, it’s difficult to tell what purpose it serves thematically.

I have problems with all of the Netflix series, but DD and LC gave me lots of characters and storylines to care about so it was easy to overlook their flaws. JJ didn’t offer as much variety, so it was harder for me to do that. But IF really only has two storylines running, and they’re not very good. It’s a lot of pressure to put on Finn Jones. An unfair amount, to be honest. I’m not the biggest fan of Mike Colter’s portrayal of Luke, but he has a superb supporting cast with their own plotlines to pick up his slack (he’s also very likable, which I don’t find Jones to be). I’m guessing a lot of IF’s problems would have been alleviated had the writers given characters like Colleen and Madame Gao subplots of their own.


#239

Oh and also the first show that’s not split into 2 distinct halves, it’s one story from ep1 to 13. I think that’s why I prefered the pacing on this one…


#240

I think, weirdly - I would have preferred a more staged narrative.

Like Part 1 is K’un L’un - ostensibly the first half of Batman Begins.

Part 2 is return to NYC and the Meachums.

Part 3 is vs The Hand/Gao/Bakuto or whatever.

I think you’d do the first 3 episodes as K’un L’un, the next 3 as NYC and introducing the Meachums - and then the next 3 you do the story with Gao, and then in the final 4 you tidy up the stuff with The Hand, and maybe Davos.

EDIT: Basically, what I’m saying is I think we totally should have started in K’un L’un.


#241

That would’ve been a great structure.

I still don’t get why they show so little of K’un L’un. I’ve only read the Fraction/Brubaker/Aja run but there it looked like a mountainside village with big walls they could’ve CGI’d. The interiors of the buildings were pretty spartan, like you’d expect in a monastery. Wouldn’t have been difficult.

Shao-Lao would’ve been difficult but not impossible, it’s not necessary to see very much of him, and it would only be for one scene anyway.