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The battle for the soul of the DC movies


I refuse to say DC Extended Universe as it sounds so daft :slight_smile:

But this is a really interesting piece. Because everything that worked in Wonder Woman is basically what didn’t work in their other movies, which is that she wanted to be a hero and she made you feel good. Tonally, audiences are getting what they want here and this article wonders how that’s going to gel with what’s been established.

Note: Imagine how huge Superman or Batman would have been if they’d enjoyed being Superman or Batman!!


At the moment, Diana is probably the only selling point of Justice League for many viewers, and therefore the only thing that might save it from being a (relative) box office bomb. As a huge Wonder Woman (the character) fan, I find that mind-boggling. It’s a ridiculous state of affairs that should never have been possible, but it’s what all the signs point towards.

Take the WW movie out of the equation, and it seems logical that JL would bring in less box office than BvS. Enough people disliked BvS that you’ve got to assume any follow-up would have diminished returns. The unique selling point for BvS was, literally, Batman versus Superman. What does JL have to top that? There aren’t enough Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg fans in the world to add any impact at all to the inherent pulling power of Batman and Superman. Once you’ve squandered Bats and Supes, you’ve got nothing left.

Until now. The only hope that Justice League has is Wonder Woman’s new fan base.

As a fan, I can only be happy about that. But still: :confused:


However, Wonder Woman so far hasn’t surpassed Man of Steel in the box office (and looks like it might not, though it’ll be quite close, MOS started off slightly better but fell precipitously in the following weeks… WW seems to be retaining audience a bit better), and has been less successful overseas than the other two DCEU films. Seems like she’s been a big boon for DC for Western audiences, perhaps, but it doesn’t seem like she’s lit the rest of the world on fire. Perhaps it’s an important stepping stone, time will tell.


Wonder Woman is on pace to surpass all the other DC movies at the box office, including BvS, and all but a few Marvel films. It’s a hit.

This is a bit of a strange piece. The thing that the writer is claiming Man of Steel lacks (the hero choosing to be altruistic) is literally the major theme of the movie.


In the US market, sure, but not internationally.


Then the movie didn’t do a very good job of showing that, because an awful lot of viewers seem to have misunderstood that point.


The movie isn’t without its faults, but it hammers this idea pretty hard. All the scenes with Jonathan Kent, all the stuff about keeping his abilities and nature secret, about whether to do the right thing - it all plays into that idea.

I think people might had issues with how the choice was presented, but I don’t think many people missed that it was a major part of the story.


Man Of Steel, you say?


Those viewers must have been getting popcorn when it showed Clark doing all kinds of heroic deeds anonymously, before putting on the suit and doing them publicly.


Not just domestic. It’s on pace to have a bigger global take than those films. BvS will be close but it will breeze past the others.

Edit- to be clear I like the Snyder films better so I’m not stanning for Wonder Woman here.


Would that be before or after he let his Dad die?

But there’s probably no point debating it all again. Sorry I started it :frowning:


You mean being torn by his innate desires to do the right thing and also obey his father? The same event that galvanized his belief that doing the right thing, despite the exposure and persecution, was the right thing to do? :wink:


I feel like a dog standing outside a dark cave, hair raised, tail down, growling at what’s in front of me. Just about to go off…

I should stay out of this thread.


This is going to make me sound dumb, but I’d never thought of that scene in that context. I still think Man of Steel is kind of dire on the whole, but this interpretation improves it.


And that is all I will contribute to whatever is about to happen here.


For me Man of Steel definitely had soul and hope. It may be lost on some people but it’s definitely there. The fact Clark is saving people at the start (The school bus, the oil rig) shows he wants to be a hero but doesn’t know what kind. It isn’t until he meets Jor-El he inhabits his heritage and becomes the symbol. I also found the scene where he’s about to destroy the world engine, and this intercuts with Perry and the daily planet workers thinking they will die but are saved just in time by Superman very uplifting, it gave a very human element to all the destruction which I think Goyer brought to the table because it’s reminiscent of the Dark Knight Trilogy’s focus on people other than Batman in the action scenes.
With BvS i think this was lost because it got too gloomy and just isn’t as well structured or focused as MoS, when you watch the two BvS has too much on its plate. The ending is hopeful for Batman; ‘Men are still good’ but this was lost in all the glum presentation and the unhappy characters. I enjoy BvS, Superman wants to be a hero but is worn down by all the criticism, but I think the overall gloominess loses the strong ideas with some people, and making Superman a dark character like Batman doesn’t help.
There is hope in the DC movies and JL seems like it was always going to celebrate that more and may convey it a lot more clearly. I think if it does well people will still go to see these movies.
Wonder Woman’s character will work with the other characters who will be introduced, i.e. Flash, and I think Superman’s rebirth will be a chance to bring a really hopeful Superman to life. And Batman supposedly has a restored faith so it’s not as if Wonder Woman is reacting with the extreme Batman at the start of BvS.


Fucks sake, Man of Steel is about a man with two fathers, one who wants his son to hide for fear of the impact he’ll have on humanity, one who wants his son to lead and rule humanity and accept his destiny. It’s the same story as the fucking Bible! How can the article author have that job and be so dense as to miss what’s said in the goddamn script? Did he just make up his own dialogue??? I bet Wonder Woman and Man of Steel are pretty much the same damn movie and MOS haters are just contrary in their praise of one and scorn of the other. Battle for DC’s soul my ass.

I should have stayed away. I feel the urge to break necks now.


That’s crazy talk. One of them is about an outsider from a powerful super-race who joins humanity and struggles to understand their ways, spurred on by the inspiration of their parent figure - who, it turns out, has actually been hiding some fairly important information from them - and ends up torn between their own race and the humans, partly due to a romance with a member of the opposite sex, and partly due to being forced to face up to another super-powered interloper from their own world whose presence on Earth threatens the whole of humanity.

The other is… oh.


I have a theory that Man of Steel is the Kevin Bacon of Millarworld. Any discussion can turn to Man of Steel in less than 6 moves :grimacing:


If the Internet had existed 40 years ago, the meme would have been “I feel the urge to fly round the world backwards and fix everything.”

The meaning would be exactly the same, except, you know, with less broken necks.


If the internet had existed 40 years ago people would still be bitching about the Reeves Superman movies to this day.