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This is the one thing i’m being puzzled by… what is “high quality” in terms of porn? And why do you say there’s no high quality porn in free sites?

This is a really weird discussion to have, because it’s not like comparing Arrow to Legion or something like that… :smile:

Also, no there’s nothing shocking about it, the war on porn is waged in most countries… even in european countries and specially in the US… do you expect 3rd world countries to be any different? Netflix would probably get auto-banned in many countries if they straight up offered a porn option. It’s already a wonder they get away with so much nudity.


I agree, saying that though all Netflix’s sites do differ at least slightly by individual country. It would be easy enough to not add that link and content to the page in India but add it on for Sweden.


If they could make a bluetooth Fleshlight to go with VR porn I’d never leave my house again.


Her plan is fine, she’s not competing with the big shop that sells everything, she’s set herself up as the shop that sells a couple of things, and only them, and makes them as good as she can.

Expanding that business runs the risk of becoming like her competitors, but the interview sounds like she’s totally aware of the problems and that she’s taking her time to do it right.

Porn doesn’t need “quality”, the growth of the cam market (as mentioned in the article) shows that a webcam and a naked person are all that is actually needed.

But she’s proven that there’s still a paying audience who wants a bit more. Whether she’s going to be making billions like Netflix is another matter, but her business is already strong and I think it’ll continue to grow.



Well, production wise there was a massive drop of in the type of budget that went into making films around 10 years ago because of the amount of free content available. Slowly pay sites were able to get people willing to pay by having a unique selling point, with one camera and a bit of lighting and a bare bones budget. Now, as people have got used to paying for porn again through unique content, you’re getting sites who put more focus on direction, location, colour correction, performances and story, sometimes continuing story they can later sell as a ‘movie.’ These sites rarely have full content on pornhub and sites like it because they crack down extensively if you contact them and say your content is on the site, though sometimes these sites are happy to leave clips up for promotion, but for a lot of people now, they prefer full videos rather than 5 minutes of clips.

I don’t know, is it? Europe, certainly western Europe, has always been pretty chill with porn and the UK literally announced porn reform in the last few weeks where porn laws were relaxed. As @steveuk says, the rise of cam modeling means that anyone and everyone can make pornography and profit from it and that means lawmakers are having to relax laws as they couldn’t cope with the amount of people that would need to go through the system in terms of gaining justice because they stuck things up their bum while people watched.

One thing about cams which affects porn production is, because anyone can have a webcam and make a video, many people will naturally seek out more professional made porn when the novelty wears off for them, and that’s not forgetting that most women really do prefer storylines and higher production values. Someone like Netflix could easily capitalize on this by having continuing series starring a few particular stars, with soap opera style stories or even action, crime, thriller or any narrative really. Imagine how well a porn star reality tv series like Keeping Up With The Kardasians or Made In Chelsea would do? Or the Batchelor where a man’s prowess is teasted?

It is sullying as an industry though, if you work in it you mayaswell give up trying to make it in any other industry. However, there are success stories like Sunny Leone who is now one of the biggest mainstream stars in India so maybe that will change, too.

Ha! I think it would get definitely get weird if we started comparing actual content like we do here. “That’s not my my Sasha Grey.”


That’s all very interesting. I wonder if this will factor into rebalancing the remits of the existing BBC channels to complement the specialisms of these commercial siblings? Linking BBC Three up with Dave in some manner, for instance (even if just a second-run deal for online-premiering content).


Honestly I think porn is poised to go mainstream. Porn used to be shocking in part because it was so rare, but now it’s so commonplace that seeing stranger dingly bits barely raises an eyebrow. Streaming is the best platform for this kind of thing, either Netflix have a special section tied to your profile, or they have a secondary product (Netflix XXX). You don’t have the problem of not having advertising, and you’re going to keep most of your subscribers and people love to save their favorite porn videos - they have a very personal relationship going on there.

It’s not like HBO, Cinemax and Starz didn’t gain share by offering a regular dose of tits for their loyal viewers. These days their nudity is so commonplace that it’s not really a feature (Game of Thrones being the biggest show in the world and being comfortable with nude scenes suggests regular nudity will soon be commonplace in regular Tv shows). The public are finally ready to just look for proper sex scenes, fetishes being served and being fans of porn stars.

As Parker suggests, a simple reality show with a handful of pretty people going about their day and then getting naked at night would get huge ratings. And mainstreaming sex would help ease tensions and hang ups about sex. We’re still caught in generational hang up about sex, progress has been made quite quickly but we still have a ways to go.


A spin-off of Bad Boys II.


Wasn’t that meant to be on Fox or something and they passed on it?
Neat that it found a home I guess.


Yup. I don’t think anyone will watch it, but I’m glad Gabrielle Union has another show.



Bergerac makes me laugh because I have a bunch of friends who went to Jersey to work (transferred to offshore banking there) and absolutely nothing happens there. It’s a ongoing meme that they retweeted the local police force and the biggest incident one week was a man fell off his bike due to a gust of wind. :smile: (I’m not joking I shared the tweet here at the time).

Actually there’s probably loads of crime in the form of money laundering and tax evasion but that’s a bit dry for a cop show.


Clearly you never saw the show White Collar.


No I didn’t. I did see Bergerac though and it was quite a standard cop show, murders and jewel theft etc.

So I’m sure you could do an exciting show on tax evasion but there’s not much point reviving this property to do it. To be fair you do really just need to suspend disbelief like you do on various other detective shows like Midsomer Murders or Murder She Wrote.


White Collar was a ridiculous crime show about a high end art forger working with the FBI’s white collar division. It went to insane extremes to try to make that exciting.


If they don’t use the theme tune I’ll be very disppointed.


Lots to unpack here, so I’ll go bit by bit:

I don’t know if this is entirely true. Yes, whole lenght porn movies production went down, but I’d think it was due to several factors, not entirely the avaliablity of free content.

Usual stats seem to contradict this. IIRC people will spend on a visit around 10mins on average, that’s about the lenght of the majority of clips. Furthermore, sites like pornhub have this neat feature where you can see traffic for each video, and you’ll clearly see people skip the fluff and go straight to the juicy bits, which also seems to cntradict the idea that people want a story or longer videos.

Also, porn movies (full ones) are ridiculous, everyone knows this. Bad acting, stupid “stories” (if we’re gonna call em that), and too much useless padding. I don’t think the perception has changed on that front (but I might be wrong).

Again, I’m not sure where you’re getting this idea from. The appeal of porn doesn’t seem to have anything to do with production.

Another thing I’d be interested to see numbers on (if you have a source) because that sounds more like a stereotype than an actual fact.

Okay but what you’re talking about here actually goes hand in hand with what Jim wrote:

I think this is more what you are envisioning, which is more “regular” TV content (meaning with proper stories, actors, etc…) but with more nudity. That IS the way to go moving forward, particulalrly for Netflix and co.

You don’t need to have better porn movies, because that would be redundant if you could just have “sexxxier” TV shows, like what HBO, Cinemax and Starz tend to do. I mean, just imagine every lame sex scene on any regular show (the ones where they just show some kissing and not much else) was actually more spicy, with full nudity and even penetration (why not?). What would be the point of making “better porn”?

However there’s a couple of issues with that:

Indeed, not only is porn “sullying”, but even getting naked is still a HUGE no-no for a lot of actors and actresses and is still badly seen by a lot of people, because of weird morality double standards and whatnot. Now, the trend seems to be shifting, but we’re not there yet. Not even close to there.

There’s another compounded issue to this:

Porn (and nudity/sex more generally) is still a taboo subject in most of the world. It’s still illegal too. Otherwise you can bet your ass there’d be porn channels on open TV everywhere.

So, on top of the different legalities in different countries, there’s also different moralities on different cultures.

But, in the end the point is, there is no need for a “better porn” industry, when you can just include more sex in the regular TV shows and end up with a MUCH more appealing product than a “better porn” movie could ever achieve.

Other than that, two things:

  1. I don’t agree with your definition of “better porn” or “quality porn” or whatever (as in better production, lightning, etc…). Porn is different to moives or tv, a better production or a longer “story” doesn’t make it better, or at least not to everyone… Porn is about satisfying a need, and it greatly depends on mood and time and a lot of other factors. Saying that better production or acting makes it better is just not true, tbh. The wild success of cam shows, and “home-made” or general “amateur” porn support my claim, btw.

  2. Aside from all that, you do have free content sites with what you would define as “better porn”, sure, it’s mostly short-ish clips that can go anywhere around 8mins to 20mins (although you can find longer stuff on free sites, and quite a lot), but as I said, the average “porn session” for people seems to be 10 mins or so.


Returning to mainstream TV, the Fox Network is sorting out what it will become once the Disney deal takes effect.

The shows that run on a network are often produced by third parties, but Fox has some shows that were produced by another Fox company, and that’s about to change;

Charlie Collier Outlines His Plans for New Fox: “To Win”


We’ve heard the sales pitch: “This is New Fox, bring us your passion projects.” What’s your mandate from the Murdochs?

They are as competitive and as curious as you’d imagine them to be in every way. The mandate, in the broadest sense, is to win. And to compete in the areas that you chose to compete and do it fully, thoughtfully and strategically.

And those areas that you’re looking to “win” are…

Entertainment. The move to Fox Entertainment is really a mandate to say, “What is Fox going to be beyond being one of the four great television network brands?” It might seem small, but it’s not small to me: The announcement of Gail Berman and Sidecar is a great example of saying if you came in, as I did, to Fox and had a thriving broadcast network — which means something very different than it did 30 years ago — but it had the reach of the NFL and power of the investments they’ve made — and the IP, from 911 to Empire — you’d say, "What do I have and how do I maximize it? What can I bolt onto this network that makes us actually a broader entertainment company that has capabilities for production, for accelerated development. We’re calling Gail’s company Sidecar because we’re running in the same direction. That’s so different from most investments that get made from a studio — “put 30 percent into something .” But this is 100 percent owned, Gail Berman-run, accelerator toward our goals. That’s one of the things you quickly would see if you sat in my chair: We have to speed up because I want to rush toward the great creative.


What does that schedule look like in five years?

Franchises like the baseball playoffs and what that means to the American audience is powerful. We just signed a 10-year deal. Wrestling and football, if they’re on our schedule, will still be powerful assets to build brands. Being a former cable guy, I watch the No. 1 network build it around wrestling. What you’ll see are hits that endure. More animation investment that supports what we do well. And along the way, what we do better than anybody at Fox — and this is their legacy and I’m trying to continue it — is take some risks on things that seem kinda nuts. When The Masked Singer is the No. 1 show in America, I don’t think anyone at the last TCA would have predicted that.

What’s the current Fox show — on the air now — that you think best reflects the new Fox Entertainment?

You’d have to say The Simpsons. It’s been on the air for 30 years and people still think animation and Fox. But if you hear the music from Fox football, you’re immediately transported to that. Those are two fundamental pillars. Then you look at Empire, and for the audience that loves that show, they know where it is. Then on Mondays, 911. We have a top five show that is Ryan Murphy telling these stories.

And those are all things you’re about to lose ownership control of.

But all things we have on our air! Glass half full! ( Laughing .)


Could you envision a Fox without The Simpsons on it?

I’d rather not.