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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILER discussion


#1486

I don’t think that Sony have had much insight into Venom during the following decade, but we’ll get to see for sure next month.


#1487

I don’t want to go jettisoning ALL of my wrong opinions on Raimi’s Spider-Man, so I’m going to say I enjoy 3 more than 1. It’s a total mess, but I’ve always found it a really entertaining watch. Some of it is really good, and the stuff that isn’t really good is fired at you full speed through an insanity cannon.


#1488

I always thought the third one got a bit of a hard time from both fans and critics. There’s material in it that’s up there with the best of the trilogy, and the villains all work for me, in their own ways - it just feels a bit overstuffed having it all going on at once, and doesn’t find time to service all the parts of the story that need attention.


#1489

Aye, as I brought up a while back when the Editor’s Cut came around - it really does work better with the blinding effect of recency.

Eddie Brock works great, and there are some really sublime moments in it. Just, yeah, feels a bit dragging and aimless in spots.


#1490

Yeah, as a Venom fan who can appreciate that Raimi wasn’t, I still thought he did a great job bringing that story to the screen. It’s just a shame it had to compete with the Sandman stuff going on at the same time, as that was good too, but both ended up feeling a bit underdeveloped.


#1491

I think if the whole idea of the “superhero trilogy” had been more codified at the time there might have been some changes. Because watching it there’s the clear thorough-line of Harry that is really sidelined in the third. Hard.

Works better in the Editor’s Cut though. And I have to say…that final scene at the bar does move me now.


#1492

Does anybody still mourn that we never got to see Raimi’s 4? Even now that I like those films I’m pleased they went in a different direction. We got Raimi’s take on the character, and with Spider-Man I like that he’ll get reinterpreted a lot. I liked aspects of the Amazing films (but at the same time, I’m so glad they’re dead and wish I’d never seen the second), I think Homecoming is brilliant and is actually my favourite of them all, and I can’t wait for the upcoming Spider-Verse movie.


#1493

I would have liked a fourth one, just because I like the series, but on rewatch I think the third caps off rather well.
And a series capping off well, especially a franchise or superhero series, is a bit of a rarity.


#1494

I would have liked to see it (especially Raimi’s take on the Vulture), and certainly I think it would have been better than the Amazing movies (which had their moments, but haven’t lived long in the memory).

But I can’t say I’m unhappy with how things ultimately turned out - Spidey was great in Civil War, and Homecoming was a very good Spider-Man movie.


#1495

I think Homecoming has really great moments, but it doesn’t touch the Raimi movies. I love his trilogy, I think the tone and direction are special like the Superman movies were special and they should be part of Americana like the Reeve movies have become. I’m just not sure they’re considered special - I think they got eclipsed by the darker tone superhero movies took post LOTR and Harry Potter.

In an ideal reality Sony leave Venom out of 3, then we get a Raimi movie with the Lizard, another with Electro and finally we get a Sinister Six movie with the Rhino in the sixth spot. And somewhere Kraven & Mysterio are mixed into the soup. It’d have been glorious.


#1496

Agreed on Homecoming - it’s good, but the best three Spider-Man films are still directed by Sam Raimi.

Over the years I’ve found the superhero movies I’ve hung on to tend to be the ones with directors putting across a strong vision for the character - so the Donner Superman movies, Burton and Nolan Batmans (Batmen!), Raimi Spider-Man, and one or two others.

A lot of superhero movies these days carry such a house style that they don’t stand out in that way, and don’t have that same sense of heart and soul.


#1497

That’s why Snyder really works for some, too.

In an attempt to return to topic, I’d suggest that Rian brought some soul to The Last Jedi, versus the weaponised nostalgia of The Force Awakens.


#1498

Really, there are few superhero movies I don’t like. Been around too long, maybe, have seen too many failures and missed chances. Almost all contemporary movies are good. Most could use improvement, as we all see. Some need to quietly go into the darkest recesses of the film vaults, only to be brought out and shown to up-and-comers as a lesson in what not to do. (Catwoman and Supergirl, to start.) Even films that are vilified have good sequences and positives. It’s quite the grand time for superheroes! My only problem is they keep being killed or re-cast or the next movie takes bloody forever to come around.

Nobody else managed to kill a franchise as dead as Rion Johnson. I am in absolutely in no mood to forgive. Still angry and disappointed.


#1499

It’s a testament to the strength of directors - for me too the best movies are the ones where you know who the director was and that’s often what you mention first. They’re like the Ditko or Kirby of movies - it’s more about them almost than the characters they put on screen. For the recent run that’s mainly Russo with Cap and Gunn with Guardians.

There’s certain movies where after you’re done you don’t talk about the actors, you ask who directed that or who wrote that. It only seems to happen a handful of times.


#1500

So… I was re-watching bits of The Last Jedi… and man… it kinda hit me how much they glorify suicide-attacks in this movie… 3 of the more important scenes involve kamikaze tactics, and it’s a bit concerning… specially considering the “this is a movie franchise intended for kids” excuse… :smile:


#1501

Oh yeah, they’re religious fanatics who are eager to die for their cause. Join the Rebellion and you too can be dead within the next year. And of course they made Leia into a shitty general because she gets all her troops killed. It’s all terrible.


#1502

It’s Only a fecking movie. Build a bridge and get over it!


#1503

Okay that was harsh. But c’mon!


#1504

Hey I’m just suprised they managed to sneak that past Disney’s execs… =P


#1505

Except Finn. Finn cannot off himself because he’s a dumb motherfucker.