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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILER discussion


#1283

It feels like you’re arguing that Star Wars has been shit for decades so don’t complain that this movie is also shit.


#1284

Not don’t complain, but more don’t be surprised.


#1285

Again it can be the baggage you take in. We still seem to have two simultaneous arguments that TLJ was bold/misguided trying to deconstruct the model and another that it’s a blatant rehash of The Empire Strikes Back.

… and in this particular case it can’t be two things! :smile:


#1286

Well sure it can. Follows the basic structure of Empire Strikes Back but deconstructs the actual events within that structure.


#1287

That’s my exact take on what the movie did.


#1288

For what it’s worth, I don’t find it similar to Empire Strikes Back at all.


#1289

Following the structure in that way is not the same as a rehash though. A rehash does the same thing again, like Beverly Hills Cop 2, which it patently doesn’t or there wouldn’t be a cacophony of complaints about all the things it does differently. It would be as with TFA that it’s really the same.

…and I find the whole argument rather tentative, yes there are structural themes you can see but that’s true of most films that aren’t arthouse cinema. I could make a decent stab at fitting a lot of films into that structure.


#1290

The RebelsResistance escapes from a base as it’s attacked by the Empire first order, and while the non-jedi main cast are pursued by Darth Vader Kylo Ren and his fleet of Star Destroyers, LukeRey is trained in the ways of the Jedi by YodaLuke, who is reluctant to do so, citing a philosophy of pacifism. LukeRey leaves hisher training early, leading to a fateful confrontation with VaderRen, wherein heshe gets a shocking revelaiton about the nature of hisher fatherparents. Following a series of upsets and personal tragedy, the main characters are reunited and while their situaton is dire, there is some hope for the future.


#1291

You missed the bit where the heroes go to a new planet to recruit a shady underworld stranger for help but he betrays them instead.


#1292

Lando is not a stranger in ESB, he’s an old friend of Han’s.


#1293

In my defence, I was on the phone with a french person as I typed that up.

Shady underworld person then?


#1294

Fair enough but the thing about that entire sequence is it also subverts a plot line used in 3, count 'em, Star Wars films. A small group goes in to infiltrate a base and disable the shields, and for the first time it doesn’t work as the exposition at the start of the plan said it would.

Also there’s a kind of elephant chase and they aren’t betrayed on the planet but when they do the infiltration of the shield and that’s nothing like what happened in ESB at Cloud City. Except ‘betrayal’ which is a theme in (let me check IMDB) 478,000 films, it happens in Indiana Jones every film too. :smile:


#1295

In fairness, the reactor shield sabotage doesn’t go as planned in RotJ either. Maybe they should have saved the Finn/Rose plot for Episode IX.


#1296

They have hiccups on the way, there’s no tension without that, it still gets destroyed as per the set out plot.


#1297

But it was all part of a trap that the Emperor led them into!


#1298

It’s almost as if the various plans in Return of the Jedi make no sense at all!


#1299

The Emperor didn’t reckon on the teddy bears fighting for their golden god. It’s an understandable miss on his part.


#1300

I’d like the movie to make me go “those guys are cool.”


#1301

But it’d be the script that would do that.


#1302

Potayto, potahto.