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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILER discussion


#683

Sweet baby Jesus, the only thing Johnson said was this" The guys making the next movie get the same blank slate I got."

As stated WAY upthread, I’m happy with Rey coming from nobodies. Episode IX should end the Skywalker saga. We should be able to move past it into new and different stories. So kill Kylo, and let Rey run into genetic alcoholism from the guilt of killing the boy she almost loved.


#684

Johnson’s comments don’t tell us anything that we haven’t all been saying in this thread already: the story’s not over yet and Abrams could still twist it further.

That doesn’t mean he’s corroborating your (very specific) theories. :slight_smile:


#685

re: SW being more than the Skywalkers

For some strange reason, this is apparently a big deal. I can’t say it’s one I really understand due to:

  • SW has been more than the Skywalkers for over 20 years, yes, the X-Wing series is now over 20 years old - deal with it. But it’s not just that example either, there are others, from the various Tales books to numerous DHC output.

  • SW as family saga is something I’ve never really bought unless you consider it a royally messed up ‘family’. In terms of being a ‘family’ story, I’d rate Fast ‘n’ Furious above SW.

  • Even on the Legacy comics, set 100 years hence, with Cade Skywalker, Cade tended to be the least interesting thing about that story.

The bigger, more valid criticism to me is how Abrams and Johnson didn’t work together on executing the idea, so we get this mess instead.


#686

Yeah, what Ben said basically.
I find it pretty criminal that you would set out to make a trilogy, and have no plans for the overarching stories of the main characters.
I realise that’s pretty much what they did with the original trilogy. We don’t live in the 1980s now though. The MCU has set a standard for long form story telling in movies and shown it can be done well. To not even attempt it with these SW movies is a bit lazy really.


#687

Star Wars, at least the numbered “saga” entries, has been about the Skywalker line. (I’m ignoring all of the EU/Legends stuff since it isn’t relevant post-Disney.)

IV-VI were about Luke Skywalker’s journey to becoming a Jedi Knight, set against the destruction of the Empire.

I-III were about Anakin Skywalker and his fall to the Dark Side, set against the fall of the Old Republic and the rise of the Empire.

In VII, the central character was a young woman without a last name, set against a conflict between a nascent New Republic and the remnants of the Empire. (I also strongly disliked that TLJ defaulted back to the ragtag Rebellion vs Empire conflict from the OT, which makes the notion that Rian Johnson gave the audience something “new” rather laughable.)

Given the history of the saga, it stands to reason that Rey is a Skywalker, and probably Luke’s daughter.

Reducing Rey to just a random person diminshes the saga. It wouldn’t have bothered me if she was just another face in the crowd if this wasn’t “Episode VII,” but the previous two trilogies have set up this pattern, that the Star Wars saga is the story of the Skywalker line. It’s essentially an epic high fantasy with sci-fi trappings. True, Kylo Ren is a Skywalker, but he’s hardly the central or POV character of this trilogy like Anakin and Luke were in their trilogies.

In VII, Rey’s name is a mystery. Daisy Ridley looks like she could be related to Carrie Fisher and Natalie Portman. She’s strong in the Force like Luke and Anakin. She uses the Force like she has at least some training. The lightsaber owned by both Anakin and Luke called out to her. There are enough breadcrumbs scattered throughout TFA to point in this direction.

I wouldn’t object to Rey being random girl if this wasn’t part of the “saga,” and set in the past or far future of the SW universe. I wouldn’t have wanted Jyn Erso to be Han Solo’s cousin in Rogue One, or Hux to be Tarkin’s nephew, or Finn to be Lando’s grandson, but having Rey be Luke’s daughter seems like an obvious and necessary element of the greater saga.


#688

You have to keep in mind that, back in the 70s and early 80s, long-term planning in film (and television) was unheard of. You had things like the James Bond series, but those were standalone movies. Ending ESB on a cliffhanger was something I don’t think had been done in film before. Back then, filmmakers were making one movie at a time.

Interestingly enough, in 1980, there was a loose master plan for all nine films when they were making ESB. Gary Kurtz divulged it about ten years ago, and it can be read here:

http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/gary_kurtz_reveals_original_plans_for_episodes_19_80270.asp


#689

Except, in the structure - or lack of - that they went with, there’s no good way to do that without Luke looking terrible and lots of people are already blazing over that with regard to TLJ. Quite a few do accept too that Hamill gave a hell of a performance but it can’t sell that story to them. So, add in child abandonment? Well, light the fuse and get to a safe distance.


#690

Maybe, when Ben turned to the Dark Side and attacked Luke’s Jedi Training School he couldn’t bring himself to kill Rey (who Luke had also been training) so he took her and abandoned her at the ass-end of the galaxy to hide his failure from Snoke. He used the Force to obscure her memory and left her with Plutt. Luke and everyone else had assumed she was killed. This would absolve Luke of child abandonment accusations, and also further explain why he isolated himself and became such a bitter, broken man. It also parallels Obi-Wan taking Luke away to Tatooine to hide him from Vader and Palpatine, though in Kylo’s case, he hid her away to cover his ass.

This would also give a better context to Kylo struggling with his decision to kill Han. Where he hesitated to kill a loved one before, he would hesitate again.


#691

Except TFA puts some other individuals in that, unless… FAKE MEMORIES.

And there… goes… the… internet!


#692

Yeah, and that’s more a criticism of Disney than anything else. How they thought making a trilogy where they give each director a blank slate was a good idea from a storytelling perspective is beyond me.


#693

Well, it can almost be done - it really can, but it requires:

  • That the company doesn’t do a smokescreen of comms giving the opposite impression.

  • That there is the one condition that the next ep has to logically follow from the previous one.

LFL broke both ‘rules’ with TLJ and has been getting a kicking for doing so. The tragedy is they were in such a great position only a year ago.


#694

If fans have to use more than a paragraph to explain away how Rey can be a Skywalker and either Leia or Luke not be an asshole, then it isn’t going to work in the context of a movie. You can’t apply comic book or novel based explanations to stories that need to be told in 2 hours.
As Ben says, it leaves too many holes and is generally unsatisfactory to everyone.
I guess we will see in another 2 years, but I’ll be surprised if Ben and I aren’t calling this correctly.


#695

At this point in time, I don’t think they’ll make Rey Luke’s daughter in IX. For better or for worse, Rian Johnson already sailed that ship.

I think IX is going to have enough crap to deal with that explaining away Rey’s origin story would be just another thing that needed to eat up screentime.


#696

Star Wars does have a precedent for having a character being told one thing about parentage, only for it to be brushed off later as a convenient lie. It’s practically a theme. So I wouldn’t rule it out.

But I don’t think it is either necessary or desirable.


#697

Its because Anakin is created from the force, at least the Dark Side by Plagueis. Which really probably the tragic end of the family that seems to be happening could be the balancing of the force that’s needed. I hope Rey isn’t connected to them personally as her future doesn’t bode well. Some theorists want her to be a Palpatine or even Kenobi. I’m not all that bothered as long as they do something interesting with her


#698

Far more a quick recap of stuff I’ve posted about TFA and TLJ than anything wholly new, but I did do that old article two years ago so:


#699

I hit ‘Like’ and a Wordpress note said -“Site Can’t Be Reached” - just so you know.


#700

What a surprise, I’ll let the tech minion know.


#701

You have a tech minion? Where can I get a couple of those?


#702

It was a one-time deal in a shop I’d never seen before and immediately vanished after I exited. Think they sold electric guitars too.