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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILER discussion


#663

I think you may be very disappointed.

Actually by now JJ should have cottoned on that ‘mystery boxes’ don’t really work in the modern age. There is no Snoke/Rey theory that hasn’t been called from the rooftops 100 times. The internet throws out so much shit someone grasps it within 20 minutes.

The entire concept can only end in a damp squib and he has experience of that.


#664

Though to be fair, the opened box in Lost was nothing the fans had imagined. Which, uh, is also why Lost had such a “disappointing” ending.


#665

I might be wrong, but I thought she was already able to do this too (apparently instinctively) while being interrogated by Kylo Ren in TFA.


#666

They’d have been excited if it was exactly what they imagined? The response would probably have been worse.

There is no satisfactory answer to anything in Lost and that’s the truth.

The concept I think is fatally flawed. Long term mysteries don’t work in the internet age, everyone has proposed every logical answer within 6 hours. JJ needs to dump the idea and move on.


#667

You can see here at the forums that there are people who would still enthusiastically embrace the reveal of Rey’s parentage being revealed exactly as everyone was speculating after the first one, even though the second one issued a frank denial. You underestimate just how easily pleased fans are.


#668

Some fans, I am a fan, I saw ESB at the Windsor Cinema in the snow in New Years day in 1981 (films took a while in those days to cross the pond and hit regional cinemas).

I am not going to concede ground on what fans want based on how much a group may moan on social media.


#669

With you. Tried to look up some probability theory stuff but gave myself a headache. Looked that up because I do not think it wise to form a grouping called “what fans want”. Probability theory shows the operative terms “fans” is not cohesive but divisive, containing elements that cancel out or overwhelm others. “Fans” needs to be broken into subsets before statements can really be made. Yeah, that could have some logic in it, too, I’m a bit bleary (and watching GoT and checking football).

To extrapolate to “what fans want” and think it could be anything but a massive furball of contradictions is absurd. I might buy “more fans want A than B” - but I’ll wander off to explore the rest of the alphabet. There are easily as many opinions as there are fans; not to miss that many fans are of two minds!

The maths are just staggering.


#670

It really doesn’t make too much sense to go back on TLJ reveals and make Rey a Skywalker. Because part of what Kylo wanted to do was turn Rey to his side. Telling her “Hey your dad is Luke or your parents are my parents and they abandoned you” would be way more effective and instilling anger and hate than just “your parents were just some losers who weren’t special but you are”.

But hey, maybe Abrams will want to have his Return of the Jedi moment of “we’re all related”. Who know. I really hope they don’t go that route, though.


#671

Fine. Let’s put it this way. The Avengers films are by most accounts successful at pleasing both critics and fans. That’s what I’m talking about. Like Pixar. It’s that magic formula of somehow doing exactly what people expect to happen, and still giving them something enjoyable. It’s like getting a recommendation from a friend, and liking it as much as they do. We’re all familiar with the concept of hating something as much as someone else. If the Internet had a concise definition, that would be it. But people still transfer enjoyment, too. Only, they don’t talk about it as much. It’s easier to complain about something. The expected is not a bad thing. It’s comfort food. A lot of people mean exactly that when they think of entertainment.


#672

Chris Terrio is pretty great though. Pairing him with JJ on the writing front has me very excited.
It also has the weird side-effect of me thinking about JJ’s Superman script more than usual.


#673

Who will take on the Kylo Ren Challenge?


#674

Who says Kylo knows? Maybe he’s not trained enough to tell who’s family. Maybe the Dark Side makes that harder. This would explain a plot-hole in Episode IV created by the retcon of Vader being Luke and Leia’s father: Why, when he had Leia prisoner in the Death Star, he didn’t give her the “I am your father. We will rule the galaxy together as Father and Daughter” speech. Then it wouldn’t be a plothole- Vader couldn’t sense it- it wouldn’t be part of Jedi training, as they “can’t love” and it’s clear from RotS that Sidious wouldn’t have taught him. You could say that he knew she was force-sensitive, but at that point in the reign of the Empire, and not knowing of their relationship, I don’t think he would bring it up.
Another idea is that Kylo kidnapped her from Luke when he turned, and put her on Jakku to instill the feeling of abandonment in her- make her angry- and it would imitate Vader’s childhood, and we know Kylo worships his grandfather, and Rey’s situation on Jakku is more like Anakin’s then Luke’s- their is no uncle Owen and aunt Beru equivalents in her life, their is no nearby light-side user to get to her first, and she’s basically a slave in all but name when we meet her in TFA. He could have been waiting to come back in 20 years or so to find and angry and bitter Rey, waiting to be turned to the Dark Side. And then of course he wouldn’t tell her- if she, leaning to the Light as she was, knew Kylo was the one to abandon her on Jakku, would that in any way make her want to join him? And JJ can just retcon the “who are you?” lines from TFA to mean "Who are you that you are attracted to the Light, when I arranged for you to be primed for the Dark Side?"
Also, side note here, but why is Leia still using the Organa last name at this point? She’s a Skywalker, and it would be advantageous to the resistance’s morale to be constantly reminded of the fact that their general is the Sister of the Hero they were trying to find, which was basically the whole plot of TFA.


#675

Because the Organa family were well respected diplomatic leaders who were all but wiped out the day that Alderaan died, which is also probably an important thing to remember.


#676

So, double-barrel it then.


#677

This always makes me think of these panels from that old MAD magazine Star Wars rip:

image

(This was before the prequels, so they had no idea the robots actually would come to be be connected.)

image


#678

I wrote this review in mid-Nov when I knew exceedingly little of the story for The Last Jedi. Looking at it again earlier today I realised my final paragraphs were more accurate than I knew!


#679

STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI Director Says The Truth About Rey’s Parents Is Actually “Still Open”

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:


#680

Well at least Kalman should be happy…

Gotta love their nice little clusterfuck they got going on though :smile:


#681

I think it’s just a storytelling principle. Until the story is over, everything can potentially change. JJ can decide Rey is a hairless wookie who is Chewbacca’s daughter. That doesn’t mean it will happen.


#682

Yeah, I told you so: Kylo may not be trained enough to recognize Skywalker blood, which would answer that Vader-Leia plothole from Episode IV that was created by the reveal of their relationship in Jedi.

Or Obi-wan’s granddaughter (which is a real proposed theory) or a second coming of Anakin, or, as another version of the “born of the Force” theory has it, a completer of Anakin’s mission (or that the Jedi misinterpreted the prophecy, and there are two “chosen ones”). Doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
This is why I disagree with @garjones that mysteries don’t work anymore. If done correctly, there can be multiple theories (ie. Luke’s daughter, Kylo’s sister, even fringe theories like Obi-Wan’s daughter or the three variations of the “born of the force” theory, or the cloned Vader theory) and at least one camp will be surprised, and the “correct camp” will have had doubts based on the strengths of the incorrect theories.
A mystery done incorrectly, is, as much as I love the books, from Harry Potter. At the end of Book 6, Harry discovers that the locket Horcrux was fake, and replaced by a “Mysterious” R.A.B. However, most Potterheads (including myself- remember I was just 11 when the 6th book came out) figured out within a few weeks of the 6th book coming out that it was Sirius’ brother Regulus Black, who must have had a middle name beginning with A (Arcturus, as it turned out) based on the evidence that Regulus was described in the fifth book as a Death Eater (follower of Lord Voldemort) who was killed because he became disenchanted with Voldemort’s extremism and got “cold feet”, which was clearly true of R.A.B. and Rowling mentioned a mysterious locket in Sirius’ family home also in Book 5.