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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILER discussion


#602

It especially works if you think of Episodes 1-9 as the complete Skywalker saga. From Anakin’s childhood to the death of his grandson (assuming Kylo ends up dead, and it’s hard to imagine otherwise at this point). So you can end the Skywalker saga with the death of the bloodline.


#603

You know, all things considered, being a Skywalker kind of sucks.

I mean, back when I first saw the OT, I wanted to be Luke Skywalker. Now, with the prequels and the new movies, I’d have to say I’m damn glad I’m not part of that family.

That’s kind of sad.


#604

No it doesn’t :angry:


#605

Honestly, fandom in general now looks so ridiculous to me that I have to admit to myself that I’m not actually a “fan” of anything. Comics? Sure, I read them and I enjoy them. “Comics fan”? Uh-uh, not me, I’m just a guy who reads and likes them. “Fans” are a different kettle of fish entirely…

I guess we need to remember that the root of the word is “fanatic”. And I don’t think that word has ever applied to my relationship with any fictional property.


#606

:open_mouth:


#607

Huh, you say you’re not a comics fan?

Three words only needed on this, first word is ‘legion’. :wink:


#609

Seconded`


#610

It was entertaining but had far too many plot holes, plus the wrong colour boots. 3/5.


#611

So it perfectly reflects its source material, then?


#612

And “Man Of Steel.” :slight_smile: (Yes this violates the three words, but David… you have fan reflexes)


#613

Oh, that’s harsh.


#614

Since when did Star Wars become this great philosophical conundrum?. It was, and to me, still is, a throwback to the days of Flash Gordon and similar serials. All of this extra debate comes from what fans have inferred from their take on the movie. IMO, TLJ is a great movie because it does it set out to do: Entertain.

The story is very simple. You have 2 plot points(escaping the 1st order and Rey’s attempt to learn about the Force from Luke) and 3 main characters(Rey, Poe, and Finn). Finn does not fit in either of the plot points so they give a somewhat goofy side story. Star Wars is not Schindler’s List.

I must admit I’ve only read one Star Wars novel( the novelisation of Empire Strikes Back) and that detracted from my enjoyment of the movie so I never read another one. I also ignore the prequels.

According to the established numbering, I have liked 4,5,6,8 and Rogue One a great deal because they were very entertaining. 7 was fun but I felt it was too obvious in its attempts to pay homage to 4.

IMO, All the fans who came out of the movie upset are doing so because of their own accord. They are using memories from 30-40 years or self conceived theories of how things should be to criticize the movie.


#615

The level of use of the Force while untrained that we see Rey use in TFA, is only displayed by Skywalkers, specifically Luke, who while Yoda insisted his training was incomplete, held his own and even overpowered his father in Jedi, who was a fully trained Jedi, and probably had additional Sith training. Also, he tried to reestablish the Jedi, despite his training being incomplete, and taught himself how to project himself with the Force, which I’m assuming he taught himself from the books on Ahch-To,.
Also, both Luke and Snoke compare Rey directly to Kylo, whose strength in the Force comes from his Skywalker blood. That’s a pretty big hint.


#616

#617

For me, none of the in-universe justification stuff matters as much as the numerous hints that were dropped in TFA that Rey had a strong connection to the Skywalker family and their history, and that lots of people knew who she was and why she was ‘special’ despite her not knowing herself.

Serving up the twist that she’s not special at all, that there is no connection to the Skywalkers and that none of those hints meant anything after all is certainly unexpected, and Johnson has explained it as being (what he thought was) the best way to challenge the character and create good drama.

But I think it irritated audiences who felt like they’d been led to expect certain elements of the story to be returned to and resolved - only for them not to be resolved at all, as the people behind the story were no longer interested in them any more and wanted to move on to something else.

It reminds me a bit of the big cliffhanger of Sherlock season two (“how did he survive?”) which was deliberately not answered in season three when they came back. The creators thought it was a great and unexpected way to continue the story, but audiences understandably wanted the setup to be paid off.


#618

I’m not sure that’s true of the entire history of the extended Star Wars universe. There are millennia of powerful force users on both sides. But this movie also points out explicitly that the Force tries to balance itself so when a great darkness rises (i.e. Snoke and Kylo Ren) a great light will come to combat it. It can’t rely on a bloodline to procreate before it brings balance, sometimes its just got to throw it out to some rando in the universe.

And at this point for her to be a Skywalker she’s either a daughter that Luke abandoned or somehow knew nothing about, a daughter that, for some reason, Han and Leia abandoned, or like a great granddaughter of Anakin’s mom who happened to have a second kid she gave up and never mentioned to anyone. The first two don’t paint the OT heroes in a good light (while also not making much sense) and the third would be really weird and convoluted.


#619

Or a clone.


#620

Luke was pretty shit compared to Yoda who did that amazing spin around fighting stuff even though he needed a cane to walk. Why couldn’t Vader to electrical charges like the Emperor? I call foul on the idea the Skywalkers are strongest in the force.


#621

Yeah, there’s no good way out of the box, which begs the Q of: Why set it up at all?


#622

Vader was mostly machine, electricity probably wasn’t good for his life support systems. Vader was still a crazy force to be reckoned with despite being almost dead. But yeah, there have been plenty of strong Force users in the history of that universe. The Skywalkers are just another powerful blip.