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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILER discussion


#562

I think, for me, a bigger time jump would be needed to make this work given all Ren did to her in TFA. Although, given my general loathing for Kylo… Nah.

No, there isn’t. If they actually had a plan and knew where they were going, it’d be easier to weave in side stories and this and that. There’s a great little YA book, Before the Awakening, by Rucka, that spins a story for Finn, Poe and Rey just before the film and is well worth a look, but that’s about it.

Instead they’ve focused on addressing other aspects and eras via new characters, which is what the Aftermath trilogy was. Given all Ep 9 has to do, certain aspects of TLJ need supporting so that’s where I expect the books to be going for the next two years.


#563

Saw it. Liked the first and last acts. Thought it dragged a bit in the middle. Beautiful images.


#564

There are no “levels of power” in the Force. Lifting an X-Wing is no harder than lifting a rock. Size matters not.


#565

25 votes in, average rating 3.64. Sounds about right. Man, we’re so much better at this than rottentomatoes is.


#566

Who? :confused:

:wink:


#567

Except somehow they’re being tracked through hyperspace, which should make it at least a possibility as far as the leaders were concerned.


#568

Which they didn’t say, and no-one else says either.

It’s a plot hole. Like it, dislike it, ignore it or rant endlessly about it, it’s still there.

Honestly, I’m only answering this because it was directly addressed to me. I’m not really discussing the movie with anyone outside here and not that much on MW either. I’m not avoiding it, but its already begun to fade a bit for me.

I wish it was more, but it is what it is,

Next; ‘Solo’. I’m looking forward to that.


#569

No they didn’t which is a pity really because it is a plot hole they could have convincingly got out of with a single line of dialogue.

Some plot holes are massive chasms you can’t climb out of but that one isn’t. Someone during the process really should have picked up on it.


#570

The hyperspace-tracking element that really contributed to bringing me out of the story was Rose and Finn suddenly working it out from first principles, making a whole load of assumptions, and then getting to the conclusion that not only was there a tracker, but it was on the lead ship, all in the space of 30 seconds or so.

Was that not realised and worked out on the bridge? Or it was and they - rightly - realised it was irrelevant?

How was the Poe/Finn/Rose plan meant to work anyway? In the very short window where the tracker was down, the fleet could have jumped - but what happened then? That was them out of fuel. Was it that it could only track them from a standing start, so if they escaped without the tracker ‘seeing’ them they’d be OK?

The timing issue also still grates at me enough to pull me out of the story - even assuming there is a little bit of extra time in the small gap between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, it’s presumably of the order of about a day. It gives Rey less than 48 hours to get to Ach-To, meet Luke and have all the scenes together they have - over what seems like at least a few days, local planetary day length notwithstanding - and then get back to the fleet before the 18 hour countdown clock has run out.

(Dagobah has the same issues in Empire - but Empire is a stronger film, so it grates less)


#571

Pretty sure that was it, yeah. If the tracker was on when they made the jump it could track them through hyperspace. But otherwise they wouldn’t have a way to track the hyperspace jump. Not super elegant, but so it goes.

The timing also bothered me, though. Not a huge amount, but it was grating.


#572

The only bit that I can’t resolve with the tracker stuff is what Rose and Finn are meant to do once they disable the tracker. Rhey say that the fleet will have six minutes to jump before anybody notices that the tracker is down, but that’s not nearly enough time for them to get back to the resistance, so what are they going to do?


#573

Like I said, all was fine for 1:45, then…

image


#574

What amuses me it how people not happy with sections pick up on so many different things.

I have listened to and read about a few review shows, as well as the comments here.

On a 3 man panel with a massive fan of the original trilogy, didn’t like the film but loved the last third, loved the lightsabre battle. Our Miqque doesn’t like the end. Our screenwriter expert in that link thought the lighsabre battle was rubbish, no mention of the Poe/Holdo thing, hated Yoda espousing semi Buddhist platitudes despite the fact that is all he has ever done in any Star Wars film.

We really do take so much personal baggage into these films and I am including myself there. The timing thing that irks Mike so much, didn’t notice, even now trying to think about it I can’t quite work out where it is or care. The ‘secret plan’ plot point, pretty much agree 100%.


#575

On the same vein, there’s quite a few people I know who HATED TLJ, yet they consider R1 one of the best… and I’m like… wow seriously? 'Cause as a non-fan, R1 is a rather mediocre movie and I honestly don’t think TLJ is gonna be that bad (the same way I think TFA is better than R1 even though I didn’t necessarily like it that much).

But then again, I guess that’s fandom in a nutshell. Probably the reason why I disliked GotG2 so much… I was expecting something else. Most people weren’t and loved it. So yeah… baggage is a big part of it, and in SW’s case, it’s probably impossible to please a majority of fans, considering the size of that particular fandom.


#576

The only way to make this mess right is if instead of being a Force ghost, bloody Skywalker has learned to teleport himself. Which does NOT excuse drinking … that. There are simply too many lapses in logic (not so much characters making bad decisions, which is pandemic) to not be thrown out of the movie 50-60 times. Yes, some very funny moments, absolutely great effects (loved the sounds when the ships came to a stop - although the idea of “dead stop” in an expanding universe is also totally absurd).

Now, I always rather thought of Star Wars as fantasy, not science fiction, and never held their nose to the grindstone as one might with Star Trek - which was intended to be a sci-fi Western. As we’ve discussed, it’s Campbell’s Hero Quest, with light sabers. When a film is based on a film that’s based on a film that was based on a myth, things get shaky. It takes a person with solid foundation in those classics to be able to properly extrapolate the tale, to make all the points that made the original myth endure, which in turn must be based in human nature. (Okay, sapient nature.)

What tale is being told here?


#577

Yeah and I don’t want to be all cheerleader for TLJ. I didn’t have any great issues with where they went plot or character-wise (apart from the dumb secret plan thing THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SOLVED WITH ONE LINE OF DIALOGUE). :smile:

I did feel when I left I wasn’t that moved by it. Not as much as TFA which I would argue despite what Ben said is pretty much a carbon copy plot, very unoriginal and catering mainly to nostalgia, yet the conflict is I am the complete target audience for that nostalgia.

I scored it a 4 in our poll because I was never bored and some sequences were genuinely great. I think the allusions to repeating ESB are entirely superficial and don’t see it at all. To me it actively avoided loads of those beats.


#578

I think l can say I’ve ran the full spectrum of opinion on this, can’t l?


#579

After that, Ben, I doubt I’ll have to worry about being yelled at for long posts. At least for a while!


#580

It’s just the way my brain works I think - have you ever seen the flowcharts JK Rowling created for each Harry Potter book, with lines for each character through time, so she always knew what each character was doing at any given point in time in relation to both each other, and to the calendar? My brain tends to do that automatically when I’m following plot strands.

I tend to see the structures and skeleton of stories I think - things like this niggle far more at my ability to lose myself in the story than any of the fantastic elements ever will. As I said, if the story is strong, I can usually ignore it - when I can’t, it’s usually a sign that the rest of the film isn’t strong enough to compensate.

It’s not even a fully conscious thing either while watching - it’s just that uneasy feeling that this DOESN’T MAKE SENSE and that then runs counter to the whole willing suspension of disbelief thing.


#581

I went so far as to have a long talk with Stan Robinson (Red Mars, etc.) on how to do complex long plot-lines, It is what we unwashed refer to as “work”.

My brain, too, tends to seek what’s out of place or missing. I had a heck of a time with cognitive dissonance as a kid until I got the hang of it. Which-one-is-different or what-comes-next have been easy, but as the gray matter ossifies into shale, I find I actually have to pay a bit of attention.