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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILER discussion


#522

#523

Um…no. Yes, we didn’t know about the Sith or that the Emperor was Chancellor of the Senate. But we knew that he’d overthrown a “Republic” with a “Senate” and that involved seducing the Jedi Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side, renaming him “Darth Vader” and that Vader was probably “more machine now then man” due to a fight with Obi-Wan. That’s far more then we know about Snoke now.


#524

This is cool:


#525

#526

And after these films we know that Snoke began communicating with a young Ben Solo, slowly seducing him to the Dark Side. At the same time, he began to form the First Order from the remains of the Empire. Eventually, his seduction of Solo was successful, as Luke became fearful, and Ben snapped, attempting to kill Luke, and killing most of the new Jedi trainees. Cut to a few years later and The Force Awakens begins. That seems to be about the same amount, to me.


#527

It seems like it’s becoming unfashionable to even like ESB now. I never thought I’d hear that.

Personally I think the whole series went downhill after the 20th Century Fox fanfare.


#528


#529

Yeah that’d be a good point except the OT were from 1977 - 83… Lots of shit writting back then. These days people expect, or at least want quite vocally, good and developped villains.

I reckon you could excuse that by saying Kylo IS the actual villain of the trilogy, but is he really? I guess SW9 should answer that… =/

Well to be fair, to any non-fan who didn’t grow up with them, they were never thaaaat good to begin with :smile:


#530

I can’t see how there’s any question that Kylo Ren is meant to be the villain.


#531

Well, considering he’s the last Skywalker, I wouldn’t discount him going back to the light side by the end of the 9th… Anyone really believes he’ll die a true hard villain? :roll_eyes:


#532

One thing that strikes me, though, is that one of the big motifs of the movie is that you have to let go of the old and head on to doing new things. That’s what Kylo’s character arc is all about in the movie, as is the destruction (and anticipated rebirth) of the Resistance. Basically, the movie is trying to clean-slate as much as it can (including getting rid of Luke and Snoke and Phasma).

But here’s me thinking, well, then why did you remix two old films once again and not decide to do something original with this movie in the first place? Because the movie before this one was also about passing on the torch and all that, so, you know, you could have just done that.


#533

T’be fair, at this point in the original trilogy, there was no question Vader was a complete villain.


#534

Sorry Christian. I’ll do better next time.


#535

And that’s why the “It’s about moving on to new stuff” defense doesn’t relly seem to work. TFA was pure nostalgia… So if that is the case they sort of set themselves up to fail.

Now that I think about it, me not being a fan and all, I didn’t even think about it when watching TFA (I just latched to the very “remix-y” vibe of it all), but yeah, it’s kinda weird they decided to erase everything they won in the OT and just went back to the status quo of Ep4.


#536

Well I bloody well hope so! Now go and think some more about what you did!

(For some reason, I suspect that a conversation between me and Ryan Johnson might not actually go that way.)


#537

That’s one of (the many) things that I disliked about the movie.

For all of the claims that Rian Johnson was doing something new and different, all he did was reset the series back to a Ragtag Rebellion vs. Evil Empire. (Not to mention another eager apprentice trying to get a cranky old master to teach her, a three-way confrontation with the shadowy leader in his throne room, another Cantina full of exotic freatures [fourth by my count]*,and a showdown with AT-ATs on salty Hoth.)

*Canto Bight was one of the things I actually liked about the film. It was interesting to see the “1%” of the Star Wars universe, the people who get rich building the giant Star Destroyers and Death Stars partying in tuxes with drinks in hand while everyone else struggles for survival.


#538

Way back when Episode 1 was released I bought a Star Wars game, turned out it was an RPG and way beyond my realm of gaming at that point so it got put away. One thing that always stuck with me from this was the fact that they referred to a series of sequel films to follow on from Episode 6 and in these a race of evil aliens who used the force were sweeping the galaxy.
It could be that this setup of two characters who are blurring the lines of good and evil (at least internally) leads to a united front against a larger enemy and in doing so bringing forth the new view of the force that Luke was babbling on about on Miyazaki island.


#539

Yuuzhan Vong?


#540

Time for another theory about Snoke:

(And this is probably not original – there are so many theories by now that this has probably been suggested a hundred times already.)

Snoke does not exist as a real person, and he never did. He has always been Ben Solos imaginary friend and represented the most evil part of him. In fact he was so evil that Ben kept pretending that he was a completely different person from himself, By using the force, Ben could project images of this powerful and evil being to other places, and using them started to create the first order by recruiting the galactic version of neo-nazis. At first he acted as a lackey to his imaginary friend, but finally he could admit that he really was evil, “killed” Snoke and took his place as the real evil ruler.

It could still be true.


#541

Snoke is Tyler Durden?