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Star Wars: The Last Jedi - SPOILER discussion


#502

But the important part here is that Finn’s death would’ve bought the rest of the rebels at least a few hours - given them some hope. And like I said before, okay, so maybe the big message here is that sacrificing yourself to save others isn’t something you should do and that fits in with the Poe development, but maybe then it would have been a good idea to

  1. not have Holdo sacrifice herself and save everybody else and
  2. not have Rose as good as sacrifice herself to save Finn. I mean, they made a big thing of her being wounded almost to the death, and that’s what made their conversation so ridiculous to me. It should have gone: “Hey, okay, so I’ve kind of killed myself by ramming into you but I did it trying to save you!” - “But… that’s what I was trying to do! Only I was trying to save everybody!”

#503

And the way to deal with that is harsh condemnation? That won’t work either, if anything it’ll worsen the situation.

Instead treat it as venting, necessary venting, as in some cases it’ll be individuals who have loved this series for the full 40 years of its creation and now feel it’s all gone to pot. That their favourite character who they likely used to get them through hard times is wrecked. It’s not a new thing, we saw the same mechanic at work with Hydra Cap.

There is an absolute limit: Once people start invoking death threats or other forms of violence that’s when you can say someone’s gone way too far.


#504

#505

I think I lay that limit somewhere else.


#506

So you going to go around trying to shut up everyone on the internet because you think you’re judge and jury? What’s the line? Oh yeah:


#507

telling someone something is not the same as trying to enforce said statement. Saying something is just for informational purposes not commands to be obeyed


#508

I’m drawing on my own experience here too, I’ve a net-friend who isn’t at all happy about TLJ, she isn’t and there’s not a whole lot I can do to help her. Telling her it’s only a film or to pull herself together won’t work.

Some people need time to work through their response to a big film like TLJ and, preferably, understanding.


#509

I liked most of this film, I’m not a super fan and I’ve got my shit together pretty well in real life and it has given even me a couple of sleepless nights over the past few weeks. And at the end of the day we emotionally buy into these things so much that it’s difficult to hide your emotion when you feel huge disappointment. This is a film that feels so badly out of sequence that I can completely understand super fans losing their shit.

Despite any of that there is never a need for horrible, bullying or devicive shit posting in any form, for any reason, never mind just because you didn’t like a film.


#510

I just keep thinking “Hamill didn’t like it, either.”

Man, Disney does not like actors.


#511

That’s a whole 'nother online inferno!


#512

I can call someone crazy if I see them being crazy. They won’t listen of course, but I don’t have to pretend it’s normal to say Rian Johnson wants to ruin every fans Christmas either.


#513

At this point, I don’t really see much productivity in us continuing this line of discussion Arjan- clearly we see this differently and that’s that.

EDIT: I was wrong, there is one thing, I’d be surprised if the online vitriol manages to sustain itself that long.

It’s actually a lot of work - and I think I can say, after the last 10 days of my posts here, in this thread, I know that to be true, right? - and most, once they’ve vented sufficiently, will do something else with their energy.

Whether that be abandoning SW entirely or just re-watching the OT, I don’t know, but I think it’ll fizzle out.


#514

Saw it again tonight - I’ll stick with “good, not great”, an enjoyable Star Wars film with flaws, but one that genuinely tries to do something different with the story and move it on.

I think, done right, the prequel trilogy should end up being seen as the death of the old model of understanding the balance of the Force; the classic trilogy will be characters trying to use the old models to solve the same problems; and the modern trilogy will be breaking down both the problems and the old solutions to create a definitive new status quo.

All depends on Episode IX now.


#515

If you think it’s “online vitriol”, we completely agree. Seriously the level of discourse some engage in, is inexcusable, I think you would agree if you heard it. It is hateful language that would immediately be banned here on MW.


#516

Well, anyone stupid enough to go beyond simply ranting, be it in a blog post or video and start wishing harm on the people who made TLJ, will likely be getting a visit from the cops. There’s limits to freedom of speech.

I’ve seen it in text form Arjan. (With maximum full super-lurk invisibility cloak on I might add.) I know a couple of the Mods there and they’ve both been working overtime on the ep 8 threads. Not that they get paid…

I know a passionate fool who got himself perma-banned elsewhere for saying Johnson will be getting death threats. His defence was that he didn’t explicitly say Johnson should die, my PM reply was he was still being a damn fool and he knew it. And we’re not talking of a kid here who doesn’t know better going full Kylo.

That chart Lorcan posted? There’s a lot of truth to that, but it also keeps the fires going when I really do think it’d be better to just let it burn out, trust that people will cool off in time.


#517

Well at any rate I think it’s disingenuous to simultaneously ask fans to invest their attention, passion & moneys (and keep their investment going on for as long as what, 40+ years now?) and then turn around and tell them “oh get over it, it’s just a movie” (or any of the many different variants of brush-aside kind of comments), which is what this movie seems to be saying to a lot of fans.

Mind you, I think SW fandom is mainly ridiculous (to be mild =P) and not being a SW fans I don’t even see the appeal, but I can understand the sentiment at least, since we’re all fans of something. I think it’s safe to say that everyone of us has a passionate love for something, and it stings when people take a shit on it.

As I said earlier, this could be an issue for Disney, if not for the fact that the SW fandom is like no other and even the haters will still drop some massive cash, no matter what they do… so… I dunno. It’ll be interesting to see how it develops moving forward… and if Disney even adresses this issue. Wouldn’t be surprised if they just don’t give a crap and move forwards with their money-printing machine.


#518

The movie isn’t saying “I’m just a movie”, it is just being a movie. :smiley:

I appreciate fandom, I am a Star Wars fan, even though it was never quite the same after A New Hope. But there is a level of hyperbolic overreaction achieved by some that is deserving of ridicule. Nobody on this board mind you, just some nuts out on the interweb.


#519

Well I obviously meant the people behind the movie… just a lazy shortcut.

Anyways, yes, some people go overboard, but a lot of the critisism is valid nonetheless… But again, none of it really matters if the movie still makes 2 billion when all’s said and done.


#520

Oh absolutely. I am quite critical of TLJ too.

Most criticism is valid, but with Star Wars it seems there is a tiny minority that goes apeshit, and is very hateful towards the people involved in making the movie. That is the unhealthy fringe, but it is just a fringe I guess.

It doesn’t help that some anti-SJW people have taken to bashing the movie over the “feminist, anti-white agenda”. For some the movie is a political football.


#521

Both the pro & anti SJW people are small minorities… I’d even say fringe… they’re just super vocal these days, thanks to social media platforms and current click-bait business practises… I don’t reckon that’ll last forever (or at least I fucking hope not =/)