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Star Wars Movie Thread


#4838

That looks like it is just an animated series retelling the stories from the OT. Who’s the genius who came up with that?


#4839

And his name was…Walt Disney!


#4840

The animation is pretty neat, at least.


#4841

Don’t know if I posted this elsewhere or not. I don’t like The Force Awakens or The Last Jedi, and I think I figured out why they really didn’t work as they should. There’s a missing movie.

Disney should have followed Return of the Jedi with a movie about Luke starting a Jedi school, Leia leading a galactic alliance and Han settling down to be a Dad. This is essentially what happened in the Disney story. As the story progresses we learn that new kids with Jedi powers are sprouting up all over the place, getting Force powers is essentially a mutation that happens in 1 in a million kids. This explains how someone like Rey can come into being without needing to be some Jedi’s kid.

The school grows and young Ben Solo arrives for his teaching as a gangly teenager. He’s Harry Potter-esque in that he’s a legend already, and he’s far more powerful that most of his classmates. He struggles to control those powers, which worries Luke. He’s eventually tempted by the Dark Side and the legacy of his grandfather, and goes off to a secret Sith school that will build a new grand army. We get to see the fall of Ben and the movie ends with this new threat in the galaxy.

10 years later and we have The Force Awakens.

This doesn’t fix everything with The Last Jedi, but it makes the confrontation between Ben and Luke much better. Disney just skipped the setup, maybe afraid of seemingly repeating the beats from the prequels, but I think they robbed the audience of a better story by trying to cover the setup in flashbacks.


#4842

That would explain who the Knights of Ren were and why he has that surname in his sith persona.
I agree with everything you say, honestly.


#4843

I think the trouble with that is it risks rerunning the story of the prequels a bit too much - the fall to the dark side of a promising young Jedi, despite his master’s best efforts. They obviously wanted to ape ANH instead.


#4844

You can’t avoid repetition if you’re telling the story about one family over multiple generations. One falls to darkness, one chooses light, the next falls to darkness again. Repeat and repeat. And you have to have that because that’s where conflict comes from.


#4845

I agree, and the Star Wars movies have always been very explicit about those kinds of ‘echoes’ throughout the movies. Like Lucas used to say, “it rhymes”.

I also agree that there’s a sense that we missed a piece of the puzzle by not seeing Luke in his prime; it’s a shame (especially for longtime fans) to jump from the young Jedi who has just found his place in the universe at the end of RotJ, to the old hermit of TFA.

But I think that for many reasons, they were seeking to recapture the spirit of the original trilogy with the Disney movies - especially the first one, which needed to work to anchor all the subsequent spinoffs and sequels - so telling the story of Kylo Ren’s fall might have felt too much like leaning towards Vader’s backstory in the prequels.

If you’re going to ape ANH no matter what, then I guess it’s a fairly obvious decision to move Luke into the Obi-Wan role - but to do that, you have to leave a lot of interim story untold.


#4846

If only they could have had some side-movies that told events in the past, or in the interim between movies.
Oh wai-


#4847

I think it’s all too closely tied to the core movies to do as a spinoff. If you make a Luke movie or a Kylo movie, that’s a part of the core saga in a way that isn’t true for The Crew Who Stole The Death Star Plans or Han Solo: The Early Years.


#4848

That’s clearly their intent, it was just their fundamental mistake. In a way they maybe thought they couldn’t have prime Luke, Leia and Han because de-aging the actors might have been difficult, particularly for any real acting. On the other hand I think it hurt the product more than they anticipated.


#4849


#4850

Even with the actors at their ages, they still could have shown them “at their prime” by making them at least sort of successful instead of the core three all being miserable failures. Leia failed as a mother, wife, and politician. Han failed as a father and husband. Luke failed as a Jedi Master. The New Republic failed. Luke’s new Jedi Order failed. It’s really awful and a big middle finger to old school fans. I don’t want to watch Star awars to feel bad.

But they had to have everyone fail in order to reboot the franchise back to the OT dynamic of a rebellion vs Empire, with a Jedi order in need of rebuilding. It’s just horribly cynical of Disney and Lucasfilm to use “Episode VII” to hit the reset button and do a soft reboot.

I think that the old EU, despite being bloated beyond all reason, provided a logical continuation of the story and kept up the forward momentum.


#4851

Yeah, they made them failures. The goal should have been to convince the audience that Ben had essentially been stolen and brainwashed, and the journey would be to recover him. They were all successful, but lost their son from under them and everything was about getting him back.

That was what I thought they were going with when Han confronted him. Luke however treated him with contempt, Leia too afraid to walk out and face him. Just rubbish writing (and why TLJ is by far the worst Star Wars movie). And Snoke was just an awful character, you couldn’t buy at all that he turned Ben.


#4852

#4853

A whole lot, but even if that was in place it’d have a hell of a job to do as a big part of ROTJ’s plot is Luke not being ObiWan. In Jedi, you’ve ObiWan telling Luke to kill Vader and Luke refuses point blank. I think that’s one of the main objections, the characters aren’t, or shouldn’t, be treated as interchangeable game pieces.

For instance, both OT and OP have older teacher characters, Qui-Gon for Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan for Luke, but you wouldn’t say the two - Qui-Gon and ObiWan - are the same, even if they play a similar role at times.


#4854

Definitely - Qui-Gon was maybe the most interesting character in the PT for me, in that it was quite nice to see a more independent and mildly rebellious Jedi (and Neeson played it well).

I also like the implication that he was part of a chain of slightly questionable guardianship choices that eventually ran all the way down to Anakin and which you could follow all the way back up the chain to Yoda. It suggested that there was a weakness in the entire Jedi framework that led to Anakin’s turn.


#4855

I think that Dooku being his master (and Yoda’s apprentice) really supports that well.


#4856

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. There’s a direct chain down from master to apprentice that leads from Yoda to Anakin.


#4857

Yoda > Dooku > Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan > Anakin > Ahsoka Tano

Then what of Ahsoka Tano?

Per Rebels final episode, her story is still unfolding…