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Star Wars Movie Thread


#4718

They did have 60 years of stories and proven takes to work from whereas Star Wars has three films.

Their desicion to worship at the altar of the OT, when not copying it outright, was obviously lucrative at first but handcuffed them in the long term.

It’s also possible that Marvel fans have a clear idea of what they want whereas Star Wars fans, like DC fans, do not.


#4719

Agents of SHIELD was a huge disappointment ratings-wise. Given how popular the movies have been it should’ve been a huge hit. The TV franchises in general have been supported by a far more niche audience, smaller than even the lame duck DCEU fanbase. But audiences that small tend to operate mostly on viewers who like what they’re seeing, so you don’t get as many complaints.


#4720

I’ve heard a lot of inside baseball about Feige so I’m not so high on him, but I can’t deny his instincts. He knew when to dump the comics advisory team. He knew to go forward with Guardians. He knew how to make Dr Strange fit into the shared universe, knew to make the right deal with Sony, knew how to make Black Panther, knee to make Thor a funny bro, and pulled off Infinity War. His talent for knowing how to make the property work is impressive. He’s hired great talent, casts have mostly been great and directors have been very talented.

I’m surprised they didn’t give him Star Wars to manage.


#4721

Is it really Feige suddenly making all the right decisions or success making it look like he is? Because the dude has been involved in making Marvel’s movies since the turn of the millennium. We’re still viewing this stuff through rose-tinted glasses. It’s easy to overlook the stinkers for all the popular ones. Why is he anymore responsible for successes now than before? Because the X-Men movies were fan favorites, if not huge box office draws, until Last Stand. The second one was considered a high water mark for years. Raimi’s Spider-Man, until the third one, had the same status, with the same outcome, not to mention a bigger box office. You’re looking at one massive failure (fan perception) away from the MCU following suit, and then you’ll likely begin viewing the whole thing differently.


#4722

Rumours abound that Kathleen Kennedy was part of the deal - She had to be the producer calling the shots. She has a strong track record up to a point, but really she is a producer in the logistics meaning of the word - which means creatively she has always had strong directors and writers to rely on - I don’t think she has the foresight of Fiege in putting the right creative people where they need to be at the right time and instead leaves it up to whoever got the contract to steer the ship. She famously gave Rian Jonson a blank canvas and we know how that turned out.

Fiege works more like an actual comic book editor it seems. People get a blank canvas to start then they get told what to change. Fiege is the Tom Defalco of filmmaking.


#4723

But again, we seem far more forgiving when Feige pulls the same shenanigans that the Star Wars movies have, probably because Ant-Man as eventually released just wasn’t popular, regardless of Edgar Wright being booted off the project. But Star Wars can’t be the MCU. You can’t flood the market with Star Wars movies. They dithered with the release schedule once, and it was instantly disastrous. One a year started out ridiculously well, and spaced exactly one year apart. Then they attempted to shove Solo out a half year early, without any sense of marketing, and with all the chatter about the creative shakeup and no footage in sight, forget about how Last Jedi was received. Event movies live and breathe on anticipation, being made to feel like an event. All the most successful MCU movies have been event movies. Black Panther is an exception, but it ended up becoming its own event, likely because of when it was released, in the wake of a popular disappointment (Last Jedi) and out of the shadow of traditional blockbuster releases, deep in the heart of winter.

Context kills a lot of happy interpretations, but it’s also important.


#4724

He’s got 10 years and 20 movies under his belt. He’s tackled many difficult to pull off characters. He’s not perfect at all, but he’s hitting way above average which is rare in media.

He’s a general manager essentially, like in sports. He doesn’t write, design or film anything but he’s got the talent to find those who do that well.


#4725

Because for the most part he’s taken very few risks. His instincts have invariably gone in the direction he believes the fans expect to see. When he’s proven wrong he’s indeed smart enough to recalculate. But the results are often movies that feel cynical about the audience.


#4726

Well, he became President of the Marvel movie productions in 2007, and in 2008 was the release of Iron Man and the subsequent movies leading up to Avengers. Ever since he’s had the reigns, Marvel movies have been incredibly successful.

He’s taken the right ones. The stories have been on the conservative side, but in a way sticking to the comics as much as the Marvel movies did was already unusual, and a bit of a risk. And he took risks in the directors he hired, and as it turned out those were the exact right choices.

Feige clearly understands what makes the characters work, and finds the right approach for moving the Marvel universe forwards. He’s got the right instinct, it seems, for lack of a better term.

And I think that is exactly what Star Wars is lacking.


#4727

Three? Depending on who you ask, they’ve done it in two movies. :wink:

And playing aside, it’s hard for me to see where Ep IX can go and not only pay off its own story well, but fit in with the other two trilogies. Logically? If they really followed through on it - Kylo has a confrontation with his Mum and kills Leia, he kills Rey, or Rey kills him by going super dark side. Or full Spinal Tap: Aw, Kylo, you go up to 10? I go up to 11. But will that work when she’s already decked him twice? Vader, he is not.

(Insane stuff that probably won’t happen but who knows? They somehow kill Lando because… POkemon rules - Gotta got 'em all, right? That leaves Poe the last one standing, unless they blow up the Falcon with him and the droids in it.)

Because Jedi did it with Vader, I’m expecting Ep IX to do a redemption for Kylo. Like his grandfather’s it’ll be unearned and massively problematic for the overall story, but George did this first, OK? Oh and not to forget, the First Order will magically collapse completely by the end credits - again, see Jedi SE.

And that’s yer final destination for all 9 movies, a feel-bad finale because … expectations.

A damn waste. No one would have objected to a new enemy, that’s the foundation of any story and it has to come from somewhere. The kicker in all of this, which has been brushed over because the PT convinced LFL that SW fans don’t like politics - yeah, let that one sink in - is the backstory that has been done is actually pretty damn good. The New Republic’s only flaw was its forgiveness and idealism. The response to that, from some fans, is to argue for a Starship Troopers hardline approach that misses the point completely.

If you go with the idea that the PT is the galaxy’s descent into darkness and the OT is how the galaxy is gotten out of it, it’s not unreasonable to think there should have been some sort of progression from the ending of Jedi and not an OT redux.

In the end, this is all academic, it’s done now.

What’s kind of a shame is how the ST films tend to overshadow everything else because I’ve really enjoyed that other stuff - the books, the comics, the animation, Rogue One - Donnie Yen in a SW movie, hell yes! - the little links between them that have been made. They even tried to follow through on the logical consequences of the Clone Wars and almost succeeded.

Getting back to the Marvel-SW film comparison discussion I think the difference is simple: SW sees fans as disposable - lose one and two new ones will take their place - and it’s probably a pretty accurate, albeit cynical calculation - Marvel does not.


#4728

MCU doesn’t see its audience as dispensable? Really? Apologists for a patently popular phenomenon…Why this need to prop it up? Shouldn’t the material speak for itself? Why is it that we’re always talking about the success, the inevitable continued success, and hardly ever about the movies themselves? Oh, they’re so funny! So entertaining! But when you talk about OT Star Wars, you talk about what actually happened, you get lost in the story.

…I guess I’m interested to know what happens to all this after Avengers 4. Until then nobody really knows how durable any of this is. We’re talking about movies that are a decade old. Add thirty more and then we can begin arguing that Star Wars ought to be following that model. In thirty years that model’s going to look very different. But Star Wars will still be around. And I think you’ll beg for MCU to be able to follow that model.

But it won’t be able to.


#4729

Marvel movies may be relatively young compared to Star Wars, but let’s not forget that most of the major Marvel characters predate Star Wars by at least a decade. I’m sure they will continue to be just as big a part of pop culture as Star Wars. I don’t think Marvel has to worry about longevity at this point.


#4730

He’s now in charge. When he did the X-Men films he was somewhat down the line of responsibility as an assistant and if you read his account, which is admittedly biased as his take, he did challenge them a lot to follow the comics.

Star Wars and Marvel will never die, Marvel have been making TV shows since before we were born (well maybe not Miqque). At worst they’ll go into hiatus until someone has a better idea of how to do them.


#4731

They’ve had 3 movies per year for most of this decade. It’s sustainable. Their latest movie is top 5 biggest in history. I think they’re here to stay a while longer.

And Star Wars should be in the same spot. I think the problem with Star Wars is they’re tied to the Skywalkers. They need to move far away from the original trilogy.


#4732

Yup and most of us will, well…

Consume both and move onto the next planet.

Strange as it sounds, after the scorched earth he did with TLJ, I still have some passing curiosity in Johnson’s planned trilogy because working with an all-new setting and characters would excise most of the problems I had with TLJ.

It’s also worth noting that two of Dark Horse’s best series were both set in new or relatively unexplored eras: Knights of the Old Republic - 4000 years before the films and Legacy, about 140 odd years after.


#4733
  1. Kathleen Kennedy is in over her heard. She has a great resume on paper, but she’s never had to run a shared universe on the scale of Star Wars. I also don’t think she has a feel for the material. She’s just making movies, not Star Wars movies, if you get my drift.

  2. The difference between Marvel and Star Wars is that Disney was able to build up the MCU fandom from the ground-up on its own terms. With Star Wars, Disney inherited a forty year-old fandom that can be rather prickly at even the best of times.

Kennedy’s mercurial vision for the franchise is going to clash with the hardcore Star Wars fandom that knows the name and life story of every creature in the Cantina.


#4734

Feige is a showrunner, Kennedy is a manager.

Feige is also a manager, which is a job he trained for as he climbed the ladder from getting coffee for people to taking meetings with Bob Iger, but Kennedy never moved over into the creative side as much.

So Feige makes creative choices, he gives notes, he even puts his foot down to the point where directors like Edgar Wright will leave rather than do what he tells them to do.

He keeps the ship on course.

As for Star Wars, I think they have to find their showrunner, even though that person will report to Kennedy.

It wont be Abrams or Johnson though, because they want to do other things as well. Feige only does Marvel. He’s not off producing movies or TV shows elsewhere, or even other projects for Disney. He just does the MCU.

Star Wars doesn’t have a creative person like that yet. Until it finds one, it’s going to drift with the tide.

My personal opinion about what they should do is; do what they are doing so far - split the timeline.

Not like ‘Star Trek’ not time travel shenanigans, just make an ongoing series that follows the surviving OT characters as they battle the First Order, and also make more stories around the OT, which has the most interest to most people.

I think ‘The Mandalorian’ is a much better idea for the company than any new trilogy Johnson can come up with. They’re asking him to be George Lucas and invent everything from scratch.

He’s got to come up with something that works, and that sustains itself. It has to become a phenomenon.

I like Johnson, but nothing he’s ever done shows me he’s the kind of creative person who will do that? He’s never created an ongoing universe. His biggest scifi project, ‘Looper’ was fun, but full of holes that would be a real issue for sequels.

He’s a talented guy, maybe he’ll do it, but he hasn’t so far.


#4735

Yeah, I still think Johnson might’ve bitten off more than he can chew with Star Wars. Someone like Brad Bird would have been a far better choice, in my opinion.


#4736

Sigh.

I’ve been wanting to see this movie since I was nine years old. The bounty hunters from Empire Strikes Back have always fascinated me.

Enjoy your “Twilight in Space” or whatever the hell Disney and Lucasfilm are planning for the franchise. If the execrable Resistance is any indication of what Disney and Lucasfilm think we want to see, then they’re going to burn the whole thing to the ground before they can right the course.


#4737

Thrawn: Alliances

So, now that I have Rebels S4 DVD, it was time to read this.

All in all, I found it worked very well. It’s notable that Vader considers his former identity of Anakin to be that of The Jedi, a thing to be resisted and dismissed. This also suggests the new material is going with the split personality angle to resolve the redemption in Jedi. (Without that, it’s Anakin-as-Vader going around killing billions across two decades and loving it, then he saves Luke, on a split second, having done all he can to corrupt him but moments before, dies and oh look, sir, redemption.)

The split narrative was far better executed here than in Last Shot . Adding cortosis to the new canon was smartly done too, why wouldn’t you want battledroids armoured with that?

The Thrawn / Anakin / Vader other vision snippets were a neat touch that I enjoyed, building on the Thrawn perception sequences in its predecessor.

As to the Grysk, I’d agree they are not going to be the new canon Vong. They were good villains but entirely disposable.

The one thing that stood out to me across the story as a whole is that there was only one thing stopping the conflict between Thrawn and Vader spiraling out of control - the looming malevolence of the Emperor. Neither dared to push too much for fear of what that would open them to from a displeased Palpatine.