Star Wars Movie Thread

[steveuk]

If they get Aliens away from Ridley and The X Files away from Chris Carter they could do something good with those.

[Jim]

We’re talking about a kids line that can support video games, toys, bedsheets and tourist traps. Avatar might be a good bet actually. I don’t see any of the other Fox franchises being a good fit.

[steveuk]

Kids love monsters. Those monsters have to be retasked a certain amount, but Alien is a haunted house and the X-Files is any kind of scary you want it to be.

[BeingHenning]

We’re talking about a kids line that can support video games, toys, bedsheets and tourist traps. Avatar might be a good bet actually. I don’t see any of the other Fox franchises being a good fit.

They also have Home Alone, Doctor Dolittle, Independence Day and Night at the Museum.

Just throw 'em all into a blender: Doctor Dolittle Alone at the Museum on Independence Day!

And they should give Caspar the Friendly Ghost another shot. Heck, a Haunted Mansion movie with Caspar as the star should be fun.

[garjones]

I don’t accept that SOLO was a stupid idea; I think it had the potential to be a great film that brought satisfaction to old fans and new fans alike, no more (or less) stupid than a Boba Fett or Obi-Wan film.

No, it immediately faced more criticism than they did from much of the audience.

The reason being that Han Solo is very much a character that leans heavily on the charisma of Harrison Ford. Boba Fett is a cypher, just an idea that can be taken anywhere, due to the much larger age/time difference, McGregor had already convinced most fans as Obi Wan.

As much as I enjoyed it I have to say (and I know this isn’t unanimous), I was never really convinced that was meant to be the same person. I didn’t hear the same voice and when it did sync it was mostly the hair and some stances.

[Jim]

I haven’t seen Solo, but I did chat with Phil Lord when he got the job. He made the idea sound very exciting. Han was to come from money and essentially be a runaway looking for adventure. It’d be less about him and the Empire and instead be the entrance into this whole criminal underworld that thrives in the Star Wars universe. A bit like a cross between Star Wars and Pirate of the Caribbean. For me that sounds like an amazing idea.

[BenObiwomble]

It’s my homage to TLJ - be everything to everyone and watch the crap fly!

I actually think Warner Bros is in a better position with the DC heroes than Disney is with Star Wars.

It took them three films, but they finally nailed Superman, which is more than can said for Disney with the OT trio.

Everyone and everything else should be built around that. The original trilogy was Luke’s story, the prequels were Anakin’s and this is about Rey.

Until TLJ, I’d agree, but that film makes it pretty clear that, by the end, the ST is now the Kylo show. I think it’s a dumb move, like you say this should be Rey’s story, but they lacked the nerve to follow through on it. The about turn Rey does on Ren in TLJ is up there, to borrow one of Gar’s lines with BvS’ Batman declaring Superman’s his friend when but a few minutes ago he was about to impale him on a Kryptonite spear!

There did not seem to be a coherent plan with them. They appear to be making it up as they go along. You would think after the unprecedented success of the Marvel properties, Disney would have had plan in place for each numbered movie and given those directors a list of bullet points they had to hit.

It feels like Disney either rushed into this or was possibly a bit too hands off with the Lucasfilm folks thinking they had this under control.

Star Wars has always been made up as it went along, it still is.

Yeah, Star Wars has been a somewhat seat-of-your-pants operation in the past which worked, that is what has hurt it this time. Times have changed and the series needed a bit more forethought than we seem to have gotten. Disney knew they were going to make three numeral movies unless the Ep 7 had bombed beyond belief. they could have planned better.

My general view now on plans is if the audience is talking about the lack of them, then something’s gone wrong. So long as you fit the pieces together well and everyone goes in roughly the same direction, you can create an illusion of seamless continuity and everyone will probably go along with it because they want that movie magic to work.

But, if say a certain director decided he wanted to stick a square peg into a round hole and no one told him not to do so, it’s going to be noticed - thus TLJ. And once the spell is broken, it’s hard to restore it.

The bigger problem for SW is also that we’re in an age of well-executed TV arcs, it’s not unreasonable for viewers to see TV doing this and expect it of movies, especially in a serial format like SW.

What really tends to irk me is the general, all-purpose get-out-of-jail-free-card of: Well,George and the OT did it this way and you loved that, so it’s fine for us. This ignores a couple of major points: One, times change. Two, George and co pulled it off, you lot didn’t. The other one is: Character change? But it’s 30 years later. This is an all-purpose fig leaf.

After two films, I’m now going to say there was a clear plan: Get Hamill, Harrison and Fisher back - get rapturous applause from fans. Then - kill them off, a film at a time and still expect much applause from fans, after you’ve fed their characters to a rancor that’s crapping out their remains on the floor. What could possibly go wrong with this edgy, expectation-defying masterpiece?

[steveuk]

Until TLJ, I’d agree, but that film makes it pretty clear that, by the end, the ST is now the Kylo show.

I don’t care, and since you agree it’s a dumb move, there’s no reason to stick to it.

That was a side road, a diversion, time to get back on the highway.

but they lacked the nerve to follow through on it.

I don’t think it’s nerve, it’s interest. Johnson lacked interest in that side of her story and was allowed to follow through on that lack of interest. He’s an indie director, used to making his own films and Lucasfilm/Disney let him go for what he wanted to do.

This isn’t about “a plan”, but the Marvel example is still the one to follow. There is a house style, an approach, a way of doing things and while there is room to move about a bit within that, there are limits. Try to paint outside those lines and you are restrained, or replaced.

This isn’t “cinema”, it’s not personal expression. No-one at the table created this. they’re inheritors and they’re not even family. They paid billions to be trustees of a global phenomenon. It’s the biggest of big TV and, as a TV series it needs a showrunner.

Abrams set up a bunch of things that Johnson wasn’t interested in. Lucasfilm should’ve shown him the door. Politely, but still, adios.

They don’t need Rian Johnson, they need Joe Johnson. They need solidly reliable journeyman directors and they need someone to safeguard the stories that those people are hired to tell.

The best thing Lucasfilm/Disney can do is nominate someone with solidly commercial tastes who likes Star Wars and let them run the creative side.

It should be the biggest, best paid, hottest job in entertainment and it should get the best people who are comfortable working that way.

That excludes the cinematic visionaries, but it’ll keep Star Wars going for another generation.

[BenObiwomble]

the Marvel example is still the one to follow. There is a house style, an approach, a way of doing things and while there is room to move about a bit within that, there are limits. Try to paint outside those lines and you are restrained, or replaced.

I think if the last few years have demonstrated anything, it is that Marvel are making what they do look easier than it is. Because if it was? Everyone would be doing it successfully, instead there’s been some high-profile crashes by others trying to imitate it.

Changing tack, I won’t say it can’t happen, but like others, I can’t see any good way of them getting out of the hole they are now in post-TLJ.

[steveuk]

It’s because no-one does it the Marvel way.

Everyone tries to adapt the Marvel approach.

All the adaptions have done so far is break it.

[BenObiwomble]

I’m playing the Highlander card: There can only be one.

[Jim]

Abrams set up a bunch of things that Johnson wasn’t interested in. Lucasfilm should’ve shown him the door. Politely, but still, adios.

Johnson is the problem here, not Disney. What the hell is wrong with him to be so arrogant to believe he can just turn the tail on the Star Wars story and get away with it? Marvel’s already proven you can be your own man and still color within the lines. And it’s not as if Johnson added anything good to Star Wars. Can you imagine him telling Vince Gilligan to screw off?

Until TLJ, I’d agree, but that film makes it pretty clear that, by the end, the ST is now the Kylo show.

This is a massive problem. The prequels shouldn’t have been Anikin’s story. They should have been Obi Wan’s, and Anikin was his best friend who turns into his worst enemy. Your protagonist has to be someone to root for, if you’re rooting for Kylo you have issues.

[steveuk]

Johnson is the problem here, not Disney. What the hell is wrong with him to be so arrogant to believe he can just turn the tail on the Star Wars story and get away with it?

His problem is that Disney let him do it.

This is a massive problem. The prequels shouldn’t have been Anikin’s story. They should have been Obi Wan’s, and Anikin was his best friend who turns into his worst enemy. Your protagonist has to be someone to root for, if you’re rooting for Kylo you have issues.

I’d watch that.

I’d watch that now.

[Lorcan_Nagle]

They didn’t have to be detailed out to the Nth degree. Some plot points that need to be included in each movie. That was the plan.

But there weren’t even plot points. Like seriously, look back at any pre-infinity war movie in the MCU and look at the scenes with Thanos or the Infinity Gems. They don’t link together, they don’t tell a story, They’re vague ominous foreboding for a future event. The plot of Infinity War was totally independent of them.

Yeah, Star Wars has been a somewhat seat-of-your-pants operation in the past which worked, that is what has hurt it this time. Times have changed and the series needed a bit more forethought than we seem to have gotten. Disney knew they were going to make three numeral movies unless the Ep 7 had bombed beyond belief. they could have planned better.

But nobody puts that level of forethought into movies, even franchises. It’s exceptionally rare for anyone to have a detailed plan going any further than the movie you’re working right now (or like two being filmed back to back, like), or the current series of a miniseries or TV show. Nobody save JMS plans a full narrative out.

And why? Well, case in point:

Well to be fair here we’re talking about not knowing who Rey’s parents were, who Snoke was and so on. They very things introduced as mysteries in the first movie had no resolution planned. That’s very silly.

If the plan for character identities from the original Star Wars was adhered to, Darth Vader would not have been Anakin Skywalker. Seruously, they didn’t decide on that as a plot point until the second or third draft of the script of Empire, Leigh Brackett’s draft had Anakin’s force ghost talk to Luke on Dagobah.

[steveuk]

If the plan for character identities from the original Star Wars was adhered to, Darth Vader would not have been Anakin Skywalker. Seruously, they didn’t decide on that as a plot point until the second or third draft of the script of Empire, Leigh Brackett’s draft had Anakin’s force ghost talk to Luke on Dagobah.

Classic TV. That’s why most shows introduce their characters gradually, filling in their backstory as the people making the show (and the actors) figure it out.

[Jim]

But nobody puts that level of forethought into movies, even franchises.

These days most movie pitches already have synopsis for 2nd and 3rd movies, particularly those that either have their funding early or are full of unrevealed plot points or already announced sequels planned.

Empire was a different situation entirely.

[Lorcan_Nagle]

These days most movie pitches already have synopsis for 2nd and 3rd movies, particularly those that either have their funding early or are full of unrevealed plot points or already announced sequels planned.

Sometimes, but even then they’ll change stuff at the drop of a hat. There’s plenty of movies, even big blockbusters in the middle of a franchise which are changed entirely in the edit. And not just problematic productions like Justice League or Rogue One and Solo. No production team will allow themselves to be tied down to what was pitched months or years prior.

[KandorLives]

If they get Aliens away from Ridley and The X Files away from Chris Carter they could do something good with those.

But it won’t be as good as what Ridley is already doing.

And come on, making a 12A Alien movie would mark the end of the road.

[Monk]

It’s arrogant to do the job you were hired to do?

[Jim]

It’s arrogant to do the job you were hired to do?

I don’t think he was hired to rip up the script and start over. I think he was hired to direct the second movie and he insisted in creating his own vision rather than just working on JJ’s vision (as no director likes just working on someone else’s creation).

The arrogance is to ignore all the Star Wars work that came before and create his own shitty fan fic that flies in the face of what everyone else had been working on.