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Star Wars Movie Thread


#3597

Every trope has been done to death and the last great Western was Unforgiven and it essentially was the final Western movie. Star Was has an entire universe of tools at their disposal and they’re going with seedy bars, two bit gangsters, gambling dens and a train robbery? Even the bit with Chewy hanging out the train and he’s about to hit a cliff face - if that’s their big cliffhanger moment to end the trailer on then they’re in trouble (is it’s as tired a trope as there is).

When I talked to Phil Lord and he’d just got the job this isn’t the kind of story he’d talked about at all. He had a far different vision. I get the feeling Disney reigned in the story (and the casting of Han) to make a story they were comfortable with, and it feels just like the Lone Ranger.


#3598

No western has even had a rebellion and an dictatorship destroying little towns just to make their point.


#3599

Jim said it shouldn’t be, and I was curious as to why. Not being a Star Wars junkie, I’m interested as to why that style wouldn’t mesh with the Star Wars universe.


#3600

It’s not due to plot, it’s the setting: ANH starts on this planet out on the frontier complete with bandits and Tuskens (Indians), with only a dodgy town as the merest sliver of civilisation and that ain’t much.

That’s the likely source of SW being described as a western.

Why do that at all as a description? It’s 1977, you’ve seen a film like nothing else and you’re writing a review for a newspaper, what familiar terminology do you go for, even if it’s an imperfect fit, to convey to the reader what you saw? Cue “space western”.


#3601

Star Wars isn’t like any Western story. It’s got sand in it, but that’s the only Western there is. Star Trek is Space Western. Star Wars is the Hidden Fortress, it’s essentially that epic Samurai type movie.


#3602

I don’t care; Qi’ra gave me her phone number.


#3603

That whole part of the story was a load of bullshit anyway.

This was the ‘insider’ leak (and he was seemingly British due to the spelling and in the US they tend to call it a ‘dialect coach’).

The lead actor, Alden Ehrenreich, can’t act, and they had a dialogue coach on hand for all of his scenes.

That then magically became an ‘acting coach’ when lazy or sensationalist headline writers wanted to connect the two.

In fact dialogue coaches are used all the time for any part needing an accent or an element of impersonation. Even Lord Olivier had one on hand when he was playing a US general, there’s an endless list of acting greats that have done exactly the same, Al Pacino, Ben Kingsley, Forest Whitaker (for the Last King of Scotland when he won an Oscar for his performance).

He may end up being rubbish but that was a non-story.


#3604

well, a number of the major Westerns were remakes of Samurai movies, so it’s accurate to say they’re drawing from the same source.


#3605

It’s not. It’s internet wisdom but there’s no Western with a story like Star Wars. There’s no Western with scenes like Star Wars. Westerns don’t sneak into the castle to save the princess. They don’t have dogfights. They don’t have sword fights. They don’t have old wise mentors. None of the tropes used in Star Wars are actual Western tropes.

Star Wars has sand, Han Solo and the Cantina and so people have claimed that makes it Western, but it doesn’t stand up to the slightest scrutiny.


#3606

Star Trek was only bought when Roddenberry pitched it as “Wagon Train to the Stars” - IOW, a Western in space. Lucas had the same influences in roughly the same time period and culture. He just also liked fast cars a lot. So Star Wars is a Western with fast cars.


#3607

Samurai movies had dogfights?


#3608

A terrier bit a Shih Tzu in Zatoichi: Darkness is his ally.


#3609

Lucas is in record as saying he saw that the Western genre was dying out and he was looking for “What’s next?”

Having said that, genre is only one way of defining a story. Lucas, famously, drew from Joseph Campbell’s academic work on archetypal characters and stories.

So there will be westerns that share elements, but so does King Arthur.

Han is definitely someone who could walk into any saloon in the Wild West… Chewie might stay out a bit though.


#3610

Chewie is Tonto, but those two are as far as the tropes go. But hey, people would rather go with accepted wisdom than question what they’ve been told.


#3611

So are we saying Star Wars has gone the way of the Western?


#3612

Is there a gunfight on a train and a scene in a casino? They’re full Western now, and I wonder if that’ll actually come through in the box office performance.


#3613

I think the galaxy is big enough to pull off a western-influenced storyline, especially in the anthology films. I see Star Wars drawing from a lot of influences – WWII films, Samurai films, Lord of the Rings – and westerns don’t need to be off of the table.

In some ways, Solo feels like a Firefly episode, bringing everything full circle.


#3614

Why is everything so … brown?


#3615

You put coffee grounds in your eyes again.


#3616