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Star Trek: Discovery - discussing S01E15, "Will You Take My Hand?"


#1683

If I had to bet, I’d bet on Stamets becoming a Traveller more than a Q.


#1684

So that was nuts.
Just full on, running at full speed madness.
I loved it. I was sure this was the last episode of the season as well so I really wasn’t expecting the next time trailer.
Now time travel is one of the things I hate most in Trek. It says a lot that I am totally onboard with this here because I have no clue what these magnificent bastards are going to do next. :sunglasses:
And I’m very interested to see how they use a space Empress who loves killing Klingons.
Did I say I’m loving this show? :grin:


#1685

My main hope is that they don’t use the spore drive to change the timeline. It’ll be interesting to see how they save the day rather than just reset everything.


#1686

Not having much knowledge of Star Trek, I assumed the nine-month jump was into a ‘bad future’ that never existed in the original continuity, based on how dominant the Klingons are by that point. So I pretty much assumed that it would have to be undone somehow, whether they go back and change things or split it off as an alternate timeline somehow.

Is it possible to reconcile the state of things at the end of the latest episode with established Trek history, and just carry on from there? Or is it inevitable that it’s going to have to be changed/overwritten somehow?


#1687

According to the preview for next week, 20% of the Federation is occupied by the Klingons, so it’s not as bad as the map suggested. Details of the Federation/Klingon conflicts between ENT and TOS are vague, save to say that they had a highly volatile border, so it’s entirely plausible that the war went very badly until they could turn it around. There’s definitely precedent for this, the Dominion War saw considerable but undisclosed losees on the Federation side of things, with the Dominion getting as far as Betazed at the height of their success. While Betazed’s canon location is unclear, it’s noted as being in striking range of Alpha Centauri, which is a real star some 4 light years from Sol, and Vulcan, which is noted as being roughly 16 light years from Sol.


#1688

I don’t watch the previews so hadn’t seen that. A bit cheeky - the map made it look like they had been virtually wiped out.

Ah, ok. Thanks. That makes it a bit more interesting then, as a reset seems like less of a sure thing.


#1689

Reset wise I can’t seeing it being straight forward either way, DISCO isn’t playing by normal rules, it’s given itself the ability to practically go anywhere and do anything and I think another major thing is that even if it does reset, this is about the crew’s journey more than an actual journey. Discovery refers to the crew discovering who they truly are and what they’re truly capable of as much as new worlds, I can deal with a reset just fine if the crew of the Discovery’s journey, themselves, isn’t reset.


#1690

Anything about next week’s episode is a spoiler.

I don’t watch previews either.

I don’t want to know.


#1692

Like I said upthread, there’s a lot of assumptions about the Klingon wars that are actually from secondary sources. A lot of fans assumed there was a war around the time DISCO is set, tied to the battle of Axanar that’s mentioned in the TOS episode Whom Gods Destroy. Though that episode does not mention any details of the battle save that it is taught in the Academy, Kirk visited Axanar on a diplomatic mission as an ensign some time after the battle, and Captain Garth was enraged by what he saw as politicians giving away military victories.

The original source for this assumption appears to be an RPG sourcebook from when FASA held the license, though they synthisised details from a number of novels and a timeline book that was published to tie in with TMP’s release. The FASA writers especially loved John Ford’s two Klingon-centric novels and used them as a basis for much of their material.

The Klingon war centred around Axanar as a pivotal moment is also a subject of two more recent secondary sources - the 2003 novel Garth of Izar, and the 2013 reference book Federation - the first 150 years, though naturally both books have conflicting versions of the battle, and both are different from the version in the FASA RPG. It’s also the subject of the fan film Axanar, which was the source of all those lawsuits a few years ago. Amusingly, after all the fans claiming that Paramount/CBS went after Axanar because they didn’t want it to compete with DISCO, the plot of the film as seen in the Prelude to Axanar film was one where it was explicitly a turning point in a war the Federation was losing.


#1693

John Ford’s two Klingon-centric novels and used them as a basis for much of their material.

Two? Wasn’t just one, the other being the musical one?

I tried re-reading the Garth of Izar novel recently and I abandoned it for a time. It is just not engaging, at least in the beginning.


#1694

The musical one also has klingons in it!


#1695

Yes, but it was another thing! :stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT: For reference, the other novel we are talking about:

In the novel, large deposits of dilithium are detected on a colony planet, and delegations are sent by the United Federation of Planets and the Klingon Empire to negotiate for mining rights (neither able to openly fight against the other because of the “Organian Lightbulbs”, a reference to the Organians from the original series). They find the planet Direidi and its inhabitants to be very strange indeed. Planet inhabitants occasionally break into song to explain their narratives or seemingly attack the visitors.

It is a little weird…


#1696

You know, I can send you the script of Axanar if you want to torture yourself a little…


#1697

Watching the Prelude video was enough!


#1698

Heh heh heh


#1699

I remember reading that! It was interesting…


#1700

I still have my copy, it’s a clever idea and it gets the characters right.


#1701

I’d go further - it was so good I can remember exactly where I bought it and where I read it.


#1702

I still have my old copy of The Final Reflection, but not that one :frowning:


#1703

That was good, with Lorca going full arsehole.

The only weakness in the ep was Burnham being in denial about the Emperor’s nature when she’d watched her kill an entire planet. So long as the next eps do something with that, then it might work out but it felt very weird in the ep.

The ep did an excellent job of conveying the stakes too, if the crew don’t pull this off? Everything does.

I think my favourite bit of the ep was Saru truly becoming the captain of the ship. I don’t think we’ve seen a Trek captain with such a quiet leadership style and it’s a refreshing change.