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Spider-Man: Homecoming Discussion (SPOILERS)


#121

I think that was a great touch. He was not evil per se, he was relatable in a similar manner to doc ock from spider-man 2.


#122

I would say that he was the best villain Marvel Studios have had in years, but well, Guardians 2 was only a couple of months ago.


#123

Guardians 2 had a villain that, to my tastes, was grossly unsatisfactory as compared to homecoming.


#124

In general, Spidey’s villains are >>>>>>>>> anything else Marvel Studios has access to right now, Loki and the Red Skull aside.


#125

I wonder if they’ll collaborate with Sony to free up the use of some of his villains in the ensemble movies or something?
I spent most of the runtime caring more about the Vulture than Peter to be honest. He worked far better than I ever think he has in the comics. I even liked his design.


#126

Vulture was the best conceived villain of the Marvel universe. A flying scavenger of superhero tech who also just entirely coincidentally happened to have an unexpected direct connection to Peter. That is the quintessential Marvel style villain.


#127

Vulture must be quite something then.
Because Ego is right up there with Red Skull and Yellowjacket for best MCU villains.


#128

Vulture makes sense as a character who would emerge due to the genie being let out of the bottle and makes it clear that Stark and SHIELD (or whatever they are now) would make a lot of mistakes trying to put the genie back in. Just like with the Sokovia Agreements, it’s a question of authoritarian or representative government with Stark very much on the authoritarian end. However, that does make Vulture imply that the people who want more representation in development of this alien tech are criminals, but they also make the point that Captain America is probably a war criminal but he’s still an American hero. Those instructional videos were fun.

So what he does is far more connected to his name (which really doesn’t appear until the end) than I think it is even in the comics. Like a vulture, he’s a flying scavenger who robs people of dead alien junk that they don’t even pay attention to.

Also, though it is set in the Marvel universe, it still felt like a Spider-Man movie from the Raimi period and from the shorter, less well done Webb run, too. It didn’t feel entirely Marveled out. Spider-Man films embrace the completely implausible coincidences. The Green Goblin just happens to the the father of Peter’s best friend. Doc Oc just happens to be Peter’s mentor. Sandman just happens to be… well, that one didn’t work so well. There is nothing actually realistic even from the world of the story where that would really make sense. Out of everyone in the city, there is no reason that the villains would have these relationships to the hero, but it is a classic convention in comics. Doctor Doom was Reed’s roommate in college. Bucky/Winter Soldier was Cap’s teenage sidekick in WW2. The Marvel films really haven’t been willing to go with a complete coincidence exactly like the comics. There are always good explanations for the relationships between the villains and heroes, but this time they went the Spider-Man way where it just happens and it completely worked AND was a good reveal for the story.

As far as the plot this was completely by the book according to the “Save the Cat” beat sheet which is probably a good idea considering it had around 50 writers in the credits. I wonder if they worked like a “writer’s room” because the movie had a good, energetic vibe like there was a lot of spitballing when it was being crafted.


#129

My problem with Ego was mainly that he lacked an extraordinary amount of patience for being an immortal billions year old god-person.


#130

I didn’t see that as a problem given that Peter was totally brainwashed, and Ego legit thinks he made a sacrifice worthy of comfort there


#131

His ‘hey, I’ve got ice cream in here’ was my favourite line of the movie…I don’t know whether that’s just my sense of humour or if you didn’t hear that line.


#132

To me, melted ice cream is no laughing matter.


#133

So, thanks to the advice given, I gambled on going to see with today with Rudi, who is 3 in just over a month.
I expected that I wouldn’t get to see the whole thing.

I’m so glad I went today. We went on a family day out, me and Rudi went to the cinema, Susanne took Bobby, our youngest round the shops in his pram.
We came out, met them, went for lunch, went to the arcade, bought furniture from Ikea, everyone’s a winner.

I loved it & Rudi did too, sat thru the whole 2hours 15mins runtime.

I think they made so many good decisions on this movie and that’s what they needed to do.
How many Marvel movies have we had now, yet I felt this was fresh and stands apart on its own, there’s a number of reasons for that and I only really have 1 complaint.

I thought the high school setting was a key choice here.
The cast, and what I feel was a very diverse cast, was note fucking perfect, not a performance out of place.
I feel like this was the Spider-Man movie needed for this generation but I did not feel alienated by it, instead I felt a real warmth towards it.
The collapsed building nod to Ditko was handled so well.
Holland was great, really, really likeable.

I loved the villain cast, handled in a very subtle manner. Keaton of course was the jewel in the crown.
I feel they fleshed his character out just enough, I totally empathised with him; he’s just another guy who got shafted by the big man but he chose to do something about it and took it too far.
I love that he wasn’t a sociopath, and let peter off the hook on at least 2 occasions.

The music fit well, and the CGI was great in that whilst there were no mind blowing set pieces, al the set pieces looked pretty natural and realistic. Not fucking shitty looking lizard running about.

On that note, it wasn’t cheesy. I will never get over the embarrassment that was The Rhino in ASM2. Probably comic book movies worst ever villain moment. I still cringe now thinking about it.

Aunt May is awesome. There wasn’t enough of her in it though. It does help that I’ve had a crush on MT for about 20 years though.

I also love that it doesn’t do the superhero movie thing of having 45 mins to an hour of boring, repetitive action at the end. It just plodded along quite nicely and I never felt the running time at all as a result. The pacing was great.

David says upthread that Spidey would make a great tv show now, and it’s funny because I was thinking exactly that while I was watching; how well a lot of this would work as a series.

So, my only minor complaint would be Robert Downy Jnr just felt really out of place here. It felt tacked on like a novelty item. It didn’t annoy me enough to take me out of the movie but I feel the Avengers stuff, while maybe a good idea, maybe not, just seemed Ike the only unnatural parts of the movie. Everything else was very well played. It was almost as if Iron Man is upstaging Spider-Man.
Iron Man is a B/C list character. Spider-Man is Marvel’s biggest property. I know there’s been the rights issue, but I hope the Spider-Man movie drops the Avengers stuff and keeps the focus on Peter, his school friends, aunt May (of course) and the cast of hundreds that they have access to without dipping toes into that world.

Best Marvel movie in years. Best superhero movie in years actually.


#134

Woo hoo, glad he enjoyed it. It is a pure kids film almost, like pixar storytelling with a slight edge or realism I felt. And it’s just so colourful and fun, I would have loved it as a child!


#135

I did exactly the same :+1:t3:


#136

We watched it this afternoon, in a packed out screening. It’s a genuinely fun film, and I liked a lot about it, but I didn’t really love it.

Tom Holland is absolutely awesome. The kid’s got charisma in spades, and after Mssr’s Evans and Hemsworth he’s my favourite star of the MCU. It’s interesting that they’ve added him into the mix just as the old guard are likely to start dropping away - I’d quite happily keep coming back to see more of Tom in action, whereas no one else has really won me over elsewhere.

Michael Keaton was ace too. I feared he would go all OTT and ruin it, but he didn’t. He kept it relatable and grounded. One of the MCU’s best villains to date.

The plot was great. I thought it was brilliant how intertwined the whole thing was with the wider MCU to date - from Grand Central Station at the beginning to the Avengers compound at the end. That’s the sort of thing that sings to the comic geek in me.

That being said, other elements of the film didn’t sit so well with me. I wasn’t blown away by the direction. Some of the action scenes were difficult to follow. I can’t remember a thing about the soundtrack or the score - it just wasn’t memorable or rousing in the slightest. And, I’m afraid to say the diversity push with the cast was a bit too obvious - I didn’t have a problem with any of the actors individually, but collectively it was a bit much.

This film is easily on par with Raimi’s trilogy. For me, personally, I found Webb’s Amazing Spider-man duology better films overall (and I know I’m in the clear minority on that).


#137

Penis parker was pretty lowbrow and cheap though.


#138

Pffft, kids shout worse at me walking down the street.


#139

Im with you. :slight_smile:


#140

I thought those two movies were bad. I had no intention of seeing ASM2 at all but my wife’s nephew (12 at the time) really wanted to see it. I took him and after the movie, I asked him what he thought of it. He said it was boring.

We saw Homecoming and afterwards, I asked him if he liked it. He said he LOVED it.

You have made a huge mistake when a pre-teen thinks a Spider-Man movie is boring.