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That may be one point where the UK industry is ahead of the American. We have black actors who appear in dramas, soaps, whatever, and play “regular guy who happens to be black”. I very rarely see any kind of typecasting of black actors as “stereotypical black guy”.

Maybe it does happen and I’m just not attuned to it, but my perception is that British TV casting seems to be fairly colour blind.


He touched on it in his interview with the Guardian

“I didn’t want to go with a British actor,” Peele admits, “because this movie was so much about representation of the African American experience. Early on, Daniel and I had a Skype session where we talked about this and I was made to understand how universal this issue is.”

He doesn’t say explicitly what was said, but it’s known that three years ago Kaluuya sued the Metropolitan police for assault and false imprisonment, after an incident in which he was wrongly suspected of drug dealing.

“Once I’d wrapped my head around how universal these themes were,” says Peele, “it became easy for me to pick Daniel, because at the end of the day, he was the best person for the role. He did the audition and it was a slam dunk.”


Is BBC public service?

It might not be relevant, but I get the feeling from the prevailing TV culture around my parts (Sweden) that public service (SVT) tend to hold themselves to a different standard than other media outlets.


Yes it is, so you may be right. I’ll have to think about that and pay attention to how different channels handle it.


This sounds like fun:

Tartan Fury will tell the story of Nicola Sturgeon, a simple shortbread farmer forced to take up arms against sadistic English dictator Theresa May.

Gibson said: “The film opens with English soldiers massacring the entire population of Edinburgh. That actually happened in 2012, but the BBC suppressed it.

“The story moves forward to 2017 and Sturgeon’s farm in the idyllic highlands of Ben Nevis, where her family is killed by RAF Tornadoes dropping napalm to destroy Scotland’s vital shortbread supplies.

“Vowing revenge, Sturgeon – played by Scarlett Johansson – forms an army and marches on London. May responds by dispatching her most ruthless and feared troops, the Territorial Army.

“The two sides meet at the London Eye, where Sturgeon leads her tartan-clad troops into battle with the rousing cry of ‘REFERENDUM!’. Then there’s loads of fighting that goes on for ages.

“The Scots are facing defeat, but suddenly the Loch Ness Monster jumps out of the Thames and routs the English troops before incinerating Theresa May with its fiery breath.”

He added: “Some might say this is an unrealistic depiction of the referendum, but I feel my version is more artistically true than actual facts. May’s in the shit either way.”


Oh, man. I would love to watch that. I imagine it somewhat in the style of Kung Fury…


I’d watch that.


True but he was more specific on inter-rational dating. I didn’t know but when I was studying a guide to London for a colleague going there for the first time and in the introduction the comment was made that you’d see more mixed race couples in London in a day than in New York in a month.

That doesn’t change though that I think his argument is dumb. You don’t find many guns in the UK but it doesn’t stop dozens of action films full of them. There are some and it’s acting and storytelling, not documentary.




Yeah I’m not sure I sense much difference in how ITV or Sky do it in drama.

I would think it’s probably more likely to be historical differences. In large part the vast majority of ethnic minorities in the UK arrived in the last 50 years (even though as we established they have had a presence for at least 1800 years in small numbers). If you track these census numbers most have arrived after 1981.

So I wonder if there’s less of a history of those stereotypes, that in America would go back further and into less sophisticated times. Some also go directly against it like Shonda Rhimes’ very successful US shows that do mostly colour blind casting.

The problem Harewood describes I think comes from the same issue. What sells best internationally from the UK is period drama. Downton Abbey, Taboo, Call The Midwife, Ripper Street etc. I think they try to be inclusive, Downton managed to get in a visiting jazz singer as a way to have a black man realistically be in the circles of aristocracy from a country manor but can’t do much more than that. Not that he and Elba are at all wrong that they could do better but that’s part of the reasoning why it happens (along with the fact that they just put out less content than the US).



Uhhh, The Transformers:The Movie wasn’t unfinished…


Only in the early stages, but I don’t have much hope for this, especially with no Wachowski involvement. It reminds me of the constant attempts to continue/reboot The Terminator.


British TV has been trying to cast more diverse actors for decades but, here we are, 2017 and it’s still trying. It hasn’t become a routine thing yet, it’s mostly a sea of white faces, despite some stars like Idris Elba emerging along the way.

But at least no-one’s given up yet.

Regarding interracial relationships in the UK; I can’t really comment on the history, I’m sure there are studies by numerous academics, I doubt it was easy for couple in the 60’s 70’s or 80’s and I think they’ve probably had problems from other people since then too.

Hopefully less than older generations did, but I don’t want to get into a competition of who has it worse, UK or America. That’s not a competition anyone should want to win really.

I’m going with the idea (mentioned up thread) that Jackson was talking off the cuff, doesn’t know the UK that well (he’s worked here a few times but its not his home) and would prefer to see his fellow Americans get the few lead roles for black actors that are out there.

It’s not a big deal, just unfortunate.


That really wasn’t my point, rather it is acknowledged that there are differences in that particular area (rather than racism overall). Either way it is a generalisation or a statistic, it does not apply universally in either direction and has no bearing on whether Kaluuya could have faced those same difficulties or equally an African American actor could never have faced it. Jackson doesn’t know and so should have chosen a better argument, added to the point that I doubt very much if many Italian American actors have any experience of the mafia (or add other examples here).


I didn’t think it was, I was making more a general statement, because these things can disappear down the wrong path sometimes.


Given the much higher level of Trans acceptance these days, I’d almost laugh if the reboot has a character that’s male in real life and female in the Matrix, like they wanted in the original but got nixed on by the studio.


What concerns me is that they may skip over making a good first movie and go straight to the less good second and third ones.

The lack of freedom on the first ‘Matrix’ may have removed some good ideas, but I think it kept at bay the indulgence that damaged the sequels.

After they had a hit they could do almost anything they wanted, unfortunately.


(I liked the Matrix sequels)

I think the Wachowskis being kept on metaphorical leash helped the original Matrix in some ways but hindered it in others - the original idea was that the Machines were using humans as biological processors, not batteries. I mean, it’s still based on the bullshit “you only use 10% of your brain” thing, but it’s more believable than batteries.

But I do agree that self-indulgence hurt the sequels massively. I forward through the Smith/Neo fight in Reloaded whenever I rewatch them.


I fast forward through a lot of the philosophy.

And I honestly can’t remember some of the plotting anymore. Who does what and why?