Has he? I don’t get that from the movies at all. He’s kind of a serious guy, but then that’s what he used to be in the comics most of the time. But I never saw him as glum in the movies, quite the opposite. Just someone to whom action comes more natural than talking.
The thing is that Whedon is very good at this kind of banter and witty dialogue, but it’s not like he invented it. The Marvel movies did it before Whedon got involved, and the truth is that most action and adventure movies since the eighties aimed for that kind of funny dialogue, from Star Wars and Indiana Jones to Lethal Weapon and the later Mission Impossible movies.
People like funny dialogue in action movies. That’s not a new thing, and I find it weird that so many people here are complaining about it these days. I mean, I get it when the dialogue goes wrong like it does in Aquaman, but most of those Marvel movies have been doing fine when it comes to their dialogue.
I think its more that theres a certain style of back and forth that Whedon stylized with Buffy and people have apped that style. He didn’t necessarily invent banter, he just popularized it because it really stood out at the time.
For me it was always like he was modernizing the latter of 50s comedies and musicals where everyone has a smart comeback tripping off the tip of their tongue so fast you can barely keep up. I think people forget just how stodgy dialogue had gotten at that point in the 90s. Whedon was a funny guy, he could’ve easily written for SNL. I chose to inject funny into his drama instead and surrounded himself with people who could do the same, at the time absolutely no one was doing it as well as they were.
As much as I love AOS, when Jed tries to write like his brother it’s the palest imitation of all. Not unlike Jed Bush. Must be a Jed thing.
There’s a very specific sort of Whedon tic that involves deliberately undercutting the moment by choosing particularly ill-fitting or inappropriate dialogue, after setting up expectations of a more cliché and predictable line.
It’s not like classic action-movie one-liners, it’s a very specific type of writing tic that he popularised. It really took over the MCU movies (and others) after he did Avengers. I remember thinking that GotG was a particularly noticeable example.
Jeb Bush, not Jed.
Cap has been written as the straight man to the rest of the Avengers. He’s the foil that dials back the quips and delivers a bit of exposition to move the action forward. As such he’s not the funnest character.
Evans though has always played Cap as a downer/somber character, weighed by something (it was there before he became Cap and there while he was performing on stage).
See. He’s so useless I can’t even remember his name.
Mileage varies, but there is something too self-consciously snarky and rude about the humor in the Marvel films, now the DC films, and most animated movies. There is an element of the characters winking at the audience as if to say “we know this is corny too,” that just doesn’t work for me 99% of the time. Lots of making fun of the characters’ names, costumes, and comics tropes, lots of implied “you’re stupid” quips, lots of sarcasm and standoffish “whatever” kinds of jokes.
I don’t think the action movies of the 80s had this. Maybe the exception would be Ghostbusters at times, although that movie bubbled up from sketch comedy and, as great as Bill Murray is (only RDJ at Marvel is remotely in his league), Dan Ackroyd’s innocence and exuberance is the straw that stirs the drink. Marvel has nobody like Ackroyd; rather than be in awe of the wonders in the Marvel universe, the characters mostly act like they’re above it if not completely over it. That’s the Whedon touch, which was novel in stuff like Buffy and Firefly but to me feels tired now.
Obviously, this is very subjective, but this is how it tracks to me. And to be clear, it permeates many movies beyond Marvel.
I feel that, for me at least, Tom Holland does that.
Also, if we’re going honest, the tone of the MCU banter has more to do with RDJ’s performance in IM1 than Whedon’s writting.
I think the best approach would be to do something like Old Man Blade. I’ve heard people say that Blade’s essential “weakness” - in the movies - is that he’s not immortal. That even though he has the superpowers of a vampire and can walk in the sunlight, he still has a mortal lifespan. So, eventually, he will die.
Now, I’ve seen those movies many times, even the last one, and I can’t remember any scene where that is mentioned, personally, but I like the idea. Have Blade on the run in a future world where he’s slowing down and the vampires are winning. I mean, honestly, Blade always seemed to be losing the war anyway - he was always the underdog barely making a dent in the big picture.
So, put him at the end of his journey, and maybe have him sacrificing his life for something or someone who could turn the tide. Like maybe a girl with a mutation that allows her to project ultraviolet rays out of her eyes or something. Or maybe a pregnant young woman with that mutation and the vampire nation wants her dead because in the long term, he descendants could really put an end to the vampire domination.
There are a lot of ways that they could go, too. Maybe with vampires controlling the government in the future and portraying themselves as “the protectors of humanity” after they’ve secretly manipulated humanity into catastrophes, wars and social unrest.
As far as the MCU, they’d really have to come up with a good way to turn vampires into formidable villains when there are superheroes and super villains out there that seem to dwarf them.
Really, villains are the biggest weakness of superhero movies. The majority of them die in the end so interesting ones with potential for more won’t ever be back. Loki is the biggest exception but the bloom is off that rose.
An MCU version of the Thunderbolts would make an interesting and different film. Villains on the Heroe’s Journey. The comic book worked well because readers were already familiar with the villains. To be effective in the MCU, viewers would need to already know the characters. Unfortunately, most are dead. It’s funny that Zemo is alive in the movies and could start the team if he had some recruits. (Vulture as MACH-1?)
I think it would be intro see the heroes fight to capture the villain so they could be held accountable for their crimes and not just let them die.
Loki is not even a real villain anymore. Just a hero who’s willing and allowed to do villainous things.
Which is kinda how Odin used him in Norse Myth.
Ironically, the surviving villains Abomination and Vulture in the Marvel Universe are somewhat crowned with Universal and Sony,right?
Still, if they can use Hulk and Ross, Abomination should be easy to bring back. Ultron probably could easily be resurrected, but there aren’t really enough second tier villains around yet. We need more Modok, the Leader and Absorbing Man level heroes who can be a threat but not world level antagonists.
Yeah Marvel can use all the Hulk characters, the restriction they have is they can’t have Hulk headline a movie without Universal distributing and taking a cut. I think it’s easier for them to use him as an extended guest as per Thor: Ragnarok anyway.
So the Abomination, Leader etc are all available to use.
Until Sorkin came along, yeah. It’s a fair point; it was certainly what made me such a fan of Buffy in the nineties.
They should bring back Tim Roth just because he’s a great actor.