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Marvel Movies & TV General Discussion


There are many reasons why I think it will fall short of some of the loftier expectations but the biggest one is that it’s part one of a two-part story. People keep saying this is what Marvel has been building to, when that strikes me as the 2019 film. The Avengers made its money because it had a rousing and satisfying finale. If this one ends on a bum note (insert Kingsman joke) like many of us think, with essentially a “to be continued” message, then I can’t picture it making the money people are suggesting.

What I think will happen:

  1. It has a massive, potentially record breaking, opening weekend.
  2. It tails off faster than Marvel’s other big hits, with numbers that ultimately look like The Last Jedi’s.
  3. It does very robust Blu Ray and VOD sales
  4. The following film, billed as the final film for RDJ and a few other key players, and perhaps an introduction to the Fox characters, is the one that does the business that pushes $2 billion (though I don’t think it gets there).


The plot of CW was “Will superheroes be forced to be a team controlled by legislation?” And the answers were “Maybe” and “Fuck, NO!”

Everything else was the reactions of the adjectives to this question.


And the much more interesting “Tony/Winter Soldier” stuff gets thrown in like big nothing.


That’s a good point. I think it’s quite telling that they’ve dialled back on the ‘Infinity War Part One’ - ‘Infinity War Part Two’ stuff so much since originally announcing it as such.


Yeah I think people are forgetting it’s a 2-parter… that’s too big of a wildcard right now in terms of BO prediction.

I know there’s a lot of speculation that A4 will be about Secret Invasion or something zany like that, but I don’t think it will, it’ll be a Thanos 2-parter like originally announced, even though it might not be calle IW part 2.


Personally I look forward to Avengers: Status Quo Ante and Avengers: Inter Bellum.



Was Aunt May’s full name Martha May?


Possibly, unless the plan has changed? Say this film has Thanos getting a win, but so do the Avengers. Thanos has left Earth as he has what he needed, so the Avengers have to pursue - cue Thor’s ship and the Guardians. Still a feel-good end, but with a continuation too.

Marvel will have been attentive to what happened on Justice League too.


well, I’m sorry but it is… take any complain about BvS and you’ll find it in CW, except it’s actually worse (though it might be better packaged) :smile:


Both Civil War and BvS are terrible, dull, morose movies. It’s like comparing fart smells.


I think the situations are identical. Huge anticipation that can’t possibly be met. Breakout minority movie just before. Cramming in too many characters against a ropey CGI villain. Massive fight and action in the trailer but missing that sense of adventure that’s needed for truly big successes.

The difference between them is IW will gross twice what JL did. But it’s not a given that it’ll be top 5 all time by any stretch.


Actually, that was the conflict. Well, part of it. Like you said, plot is what actually happens and it’s driven by the conflict.

Everything else was the reactions of the adjectives to this question.

The characters’ responses to the conflict are always the plot.

I’m not a great fan of those Syd Field or McKee diagrams, but they build on a very old story structure, and you can be sure that for those big movies, they pay attention to this kind of structure.


Inciting incident is the explosion and the Sokovia accords, plot point 1 re-introduces the Winter Soldier and the other plot strand and so on. The structure of Civil War is actually quite complicated because it has to combine the general conflict around the Sokovia Accords with the hunt for the Winter Soldier and Zemo’s manipulation with which he sets up the big rift between Cap and Tony.

And that is, of course, where it all falls apart: the plot is overly complicated, it relies on a lot of things happening that the villain can’t actually control, and it wouldn’t make any sense if the characters properly talked to each other and acting stupidly, at times.

But there is definitely plot. Quite a lot of it. If there wasn’t, it’d just be everybody sitting at a table having drinks and enjoying the evening.


Nah Justice League was the culmination of Warner imploding because of their own stupidity. It started with one director, who then got the boot half-way through, then they brought in another guy (completely different to the first) to change the story, re-shoot most of the movie and rush it out in order to meet the release date.

Just by that alone, it’s uncomparable to Infinity War.


Incestuousness is another problem. The more the film concerns itself with only the characters within, the less connection to a stable reality (which can be Middle-Earth, so long as a world exits outside the protagonist(s)) the less connected the audience, the lower the box office. Kick-Ass connected, and Avengers, being set in New York City, connected best. The outrage at Man of Steel was partly because the audience partly connected to Metropolis, but then the extent of the damage (and Kal-El’s very unSuperman-ly action) blew the audience out of the water, resulting in anger and severe critiques. Iron Man was set in a very real world. By IM3, it had constricted to inter-character interactions.

People want to live in Middle-Earth. People do live in New York City. If there is not a setting nor a character an audience member can project themself into, there is not much for them there. It’s all about wish-fulfillment, from the rottenest rom-com to the biggest spectacular. When the CGI is crude, it makes us focus on the fact we are watching a movie and something looks wrong, Breaks the connection. Bad enough, maybe we also just watch to pick out all the flaws and thus feel superior - as in “I could do this better”.

It’s complicated.


I haven’t disliked any Marvel movie so far. I was entertained by Civil War but I agree the plot was a bit convoluted. The last bit, in Siberia (I think it was?) wasn’t very good either.


I don’t think the anticipation for JL was all that big, really. And that’s because they haven’t been generating excitement with the Batman and Superman movies before that. Marvel actually have been building anticipation for this one with ten years of successful movies; that’s not comparable at all.

Breakout minority movie just before.

Doesn’t have any bearing either way.

Cramming in too many characters against a ropey CGI villain.

That wasn’t many characters in JL. Avengers had as many.

Massive fight and action in the trailer but missing that sense of adventure that’s needed for truly big successes.

First Avengers trailer had the same mood. Many first trailers have that serious tone; apparently people respond to that.

Seriously, the parallels between Avengers and JL are way bigger, and that’s because Warners was aping Marvel. “Have we learned nothing from JL” doesn’t make a lot of sense because what Warner learned from JL was mainly that they aren’t Marvel and haven’t been working to build their universe properly.

Infinity War is the result of Marvel being better at this than Warner. Whether it works out still remains to be seen, though.


Reaction, not plot. And bad reaction, because it is not true to the character’s psychology. Cap is obviously the one to follow international accords, and Stark is obviously the bad-boy rebel. Who flipped their positions? Millar. It’s all his fault!


Plot consists of action and reaction. That’s what makes stuff happen. Stuff happening is plot.

The bad reaction part - yes, sure. I do think they managed to make Cap’s and Tony’s positions somewhat believable, but not the way everything spins out of control. Why should everybody basically make sure they end up in jail - including Sharon Carter - so that Bucky doesn’t get caught and put on a proper trial? They do try to give it urgency, but never quite works.


I’m talking about Millarworlders, not Warners. I’ve seen people talk about the Black Panther lead in, the fact this movie has been anticipated for 10 years, how records will be easily broken.

We’ll know in just a few more weeks, but this is probably the second most discussed topic on the forum and it’s been that way for quite a while.