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Marvel Movies & TV General Discussion


…what should we learn from Warner’s failed attempt to imitate Marvel’s success?

Infinity War is a very different animal from Justic League, in a great many ways. I don’t know what parallel you are thinking of there?


Civil War was better than I expected it to be,as I’m not a fan of the source material. The big plus of that film was the Russos giving each character time in the film and a turn in the spotlight, no one got short changed.

On Infinity War they’ll have to take that trick to a new level due to the expanded roster. In this respect CW was already nuts, IW is even more so.


I think almost every character in that movie got short changed.


Justice League ended up being a “fill-in issue” of a movie. Get the team together, get back the Big Guy, bop the Big Bad. Infinity War is supposed to tie up the threads of 20+ other movies and a TV show or three. It makes for a massive tapestry, and only studio notes can destroy it.


How? In that they didn’t get enough time? How do you juggle 12 characters in a film of just over 2 hours? Or something else?

If you’re referring to the plot, that’s pretty much a case of being faithful to the source material.


Oh I agree, I’m not a fan of the source material either.
They just shouldn’t have done it since the movie couldn’t juggle these characters and the two major plot threads/gimmick with any sense of impact.


Well, I think that’d be impossible but as they decided to do it, for me it turned out better than I expected it to. It was, more-or-less Avengers 2.5.


Hateful Eight sure took the same time to go fairly deep into the characters, but there was not much of an outside plot thread to keep to. Glengarry Glen Ross did so in harsh, vibrant strokes. That’s called “good writing”.


Major problem for a Cap film.


Yeah, but I think at this point people had moved beyond expecting a pure character film, even if the title says so. It’s notable after CW Marvel kept splicing characters together, most recently Strange in Thor Ragnarok.

In comic terms, I also link CW as an event far more to Cap than anyone else, even though it was a big line-wide event, because of what Brubaker did in the wake of it.


I think it was an additional problem that the plot had them fighting each other. In that there was no actual villain and no actual threat, other than the threat they posed to each other.

That’s where Infinity War may well work better. I do think the Russos have a good grip on the characters in general, the story just didn’t work all that well.


Following poorly received films (WW-excluded) with a poorly-made film with bad buzz throughout it’s production is not a recipe for success? Good thing none of that applies to Avengers: Infinity War.


Really my main issue was that the main tangible source of conflict was an obvious twist they kept until the end to reveal.

When it should have been the driving force. It makes it a boring movie.


Civil War had a 91 and 92% on Rotten Tomatoes and made 1.1 billion dollars. That’s pretty well-received.


Same here. In terms of expectations, it’s probably about what it should be aiming at - but I feel like the novelty of seeing characters all crop up in each other’s movies is wearing fairly thin now, in terms of putting bums on seats in a major way, so I’m not sure the huge cast will come with a commensurate box-office boost.

Honestly, I think the key deciding factor in whether it hits those crazy-high numbers is whether it’s any good or not. As silly as that sounds, I think the fun factor and the rewatch potential could make the difference between it doing Civil War numbers and beating the original Avengers.

Either way though, I think US$2bn is an incredibly high bar to set. I don’t feel like Infinity War is a big cultural event in the same way that the return of Star Wars was. Even topping the original Avengers box office would be impressive enough.


Oh, I was refering to the people on this board who didn’t like it. It obviously did fine in general. On the other hand, it’s an example for Jim’s theory that Marvel has peaked - Civil War has more heroes than the Avengers movie and apparently was well-received and still didn’t manage to make Avengers money.


Yeah. Marvel have been pretty canny - from Iron Man to Avengers, you had those character spotlights. After that they had some character crossover - Widow in Cap 2, but it was restrained. After Avengers 2 and CW, they did more of that, probably as preparation for IW. Marvel seem to have a knack for knowing how long to stick with a trick before unveiling a new one. Which I think the post IW films will be doing.


What seems to be bandied about here is the difference between conflict and plot. Also the difference between a verb and a noun, as one or more of my teachers might point out. Plot is “what happens”. Conflict is “what drives plot”.

Civil War was almost pure conflict. The plot could be summed up as “a schism develops between friends”. Same for many of the genre films. Definite confusion here. Take Dr. Strange, all conflict, no plot. A “plot” means a change (oddly, as it s not the verb-analog). Any “reset” where the world external to the characters does not change is conflict. When there is an external impact on others we might consider it a plot.

Adjectives? Why, the characters, of course. And we need noun, verb and adjective to form a proper sentence. And we need plot, conflict and characters to form a decent film. The proportions can change a bit (Deadpool) but when the plot is short-changed, it gets directly reflected in box office.


There was plenty of plot in Civil War (and in Doc Strange), it just wasn’t very good.


Civil War was a (much) crappier BvS, but it was better received, presumably because of all the jokes and cameos (and the Marvel brand caché of course).

There was a much better movie in there (you can still see a few bits of it), but it got buried under the MCU directives.