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Marvel Movie & TV Thread - Cage, SHIELD, and Strange


#1229

I feel the same. It had a lot of good things about it (David Tennant was fantastic in it), but the pacing just didn’t work. There were too many episodes that didn’t move the story forward.

I would like to see them rework the show a bit before Season 2, and maybe broaden out the scope. Let us see Jessica on different cases for instance.


#1230

I did finish Cage and it gets marginally better toward the end. But not good, unfortunately.

Wait, are you ranking DD2 above DD1? That’s just crazy, man! Daredevil season 1 was near perfect, and DD2 took a dive after the Punisher storyline; everything Elektra and The Hand was pretty bad.


#1231

The character was definitely the problem, but I also feel that a different actress could’ve added some depth and charm to the character. For me, it was a combination of both. Or at least, a different actress could have made it work better by covering the flaws in the writing for the character.


#1232

I think we talked about this in the JJ thread; she’s totally self obsessed and, at no point does she get past that. She’s got very good reasons to be like that but 13 episodes is more than enough TV time to explore those problems and fix (or start to fix) some of them.

I feel sorry for her, but my dislike of her is not down to a lack of charm, she’s just not a good person.


#1233

I agree. But a good actor can give a character depth even if that isn’t in the writing. (Well, to some extent. It’s not easy, obviously.) But they deliberately chose an actress who was mainly known for playing aggressive, superficial characters, which is what she did here, as well.


#1234

This IS the conversation we had! :slight_smile:

No matter who played her, she doesn’t learn, or get better, and people die because of her. You can add as much charm as to that as you like, it’s still bad.


#1235

I’d argue that the whole point of the story is that the ending is unhappy. Jessica fails in all her goals, doesn’t learn anything, and is beset upon by even more people asking for her help even though she doesn’t think she’s worth of them coming to her.

And yeah, she’s not a sympathetic character, but again that’s the point. Her portrayal of someone with PTSD and an anxiety disorder is incredibly realistic


#1236

She’s flawed and therefore she’s interesting. I’d bet that Jessica Jones is the highest viewed of all four seasons.


#1237

See:


#1238

No.

Your personal thing is wrong.

Don’t go alternative factsing stuff juz cuz you don’t like the Jayjay.

Booooo! Trump!!


#1239

Works pretty well for Shameless!


#1240

I don’t watch ‘Shameless’. :wink:

Do they get anyone killed? JJ did that.


#1241

No, but not for a lack of trying/negligence


#1242

And incredibly hopeless.

Traditionally, protagonists learn, grow, overcome etc. JJ does none of these things and the people around her don’t help either. They don’t react to someone who behaves the way she does the way people really would. They continually defer to her because of her few, extraordinary abilities rather than insisting that she either gets help, accepts help, or stays out of the situation.

She’s not just a problem for herself, she’s a liability to everyone around her.

I’m not trying to stop anyone else watching the show, but it was remarkably unsuccesful for me.


#1243

What would have been a success for you?


#1244

If she’d made progress in managing her problems. If she was in a better place, as a person, by the end of the show.

And, along the way, if people around her had reacted to her in more believable ways, and that had been part of the drive to improve.

I know she kills the bad guy, but it’s one desperate act after 13 episodes of bad choices. There’s no growth, no change, no revelation, realisation or education. If all the show wants to do is present someone with problems that that they can’t overcome then you can do that in one episode. After 13 there had better be a change.


#1245

The major question I have then is why does there need to be a change? Resolving mental health issues is a big thing, it’s not simple and it’s very difficult to even get going on that road.

To compare to another staunchly feminist show written by women and about mental health issues which I evangelise about - Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - At the end of series 2 Rebecca is no closer to being fixed than she was when she fled her New York life at the start. If anything she’s slid further back thanks to the events of the series 2 finale. This is realistic, just like Jessica not dealing with her problems, and not getting the right support or good advice from her friends (who to be fair are a talk-show host with unrealistic ideas about life on the streets, a cold and manipulative lawyer, and a junkie).

The idea that a show has to have their character grow, address and start to fix their problems has some merit, but I don’t think every show has to do that. And I think it’s better that shows where mental illness as a core theme show just how destructive and awful it is, and that there are no simple solutions. To have Jessica end series 1 in a better place than she started would have been to betray that part of the show’s core principal, no matter how narratively satisfying it might have been.


#1246

All TV shows are decompressed to some extent, and sometimes a great extent…it’s something you have to except to enjoy the medium. Jessica Jones was a bit too repetitive though. They’d catch the Purple Man, he’d escape, catch him, he’d escape. It was like Tom and Jerry with fewer jokes and more rape.

The first few episodes were great. The show went downhill once the Purple Man emerges from the shadows.


#1247

One of the reasons I’m looking forward to Legion is that it will only be 8 episodes.


#1248

There WAS a subplot with Emmy Rossum leaving a bag of coke around and a kid discovered it.