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Marvel Comics: The CB Cebulski Generation Begins!


#1599

Nope. One of her moms is from an alternate dimension where everyone is “spanish” (which means they aren’t by our standards anyway) and her other mom is from Wiccan’s all-woman pocket dimension.

She just decided to become Latina because when she came to Earth she stayed with a latino family. And I’ve said before…racist undertones abound.


#1600

So when do they start deportation proceedings?


#1601

So there wasn’t a Latin America where she came from?

Genuinely asking, I haven’t read much stuff she’s appeared in.


#1602

Mobs don’t go away. They fester and get worse. CB’s crime isn’t a big issue I think. It’s embarrassing but easily talked through. But you can’t be dismissive of the mob. And that’s been Marvels response far. You can’t disrespect your customer and expect them to suck it up. Not these days when you need all the customers you can get.


#1603

It seemed like some sort of tribal island thing.
I’ll go find a pic, so watch this space for an edit.

But everyone was brown and whatnot so…I don’t take that to mean they are our latinos. That’s just facile thinking to me. And very reductive.

EDIT: Alright, backstory time. One of her moms was from this island planet that was created when two cosmic women fell in love and conceived it. So, nah, she’s 100% not latino.
image


#1604

None of her books really jumped out at me so I guess it’s a good thing I’m not outraged.

That said, io9, one of the main sources of outrage has been spotlighting deserving comic from minority creators and encouraging their community to check them out for quite a while now.


#1605

Ah okay. I was thinking she was from an alternate Earth, or one of her moms was. Yeah, that’s pretty weird. Latina has a pretty specific meaning and doesn’t even really indicate skin color or phenotypical features considering how diverse Latin America is.


#1606

Exactly. It’s a sore spot of mine whenever I see it. Such as in the second season of Supergirl when there’s this alien race whose skin is black and the episode features Jimmy teaching them about civil rights.

It’s ridiculous. They aren’t human/from an alternate earth then using them to showcase these issues is just wrong unless it’s a direct parallel against their own society.


#1607

Whereas I will be…go figure eh


#1608

I wonder how big a customer they really are

As a general observation I find that those who moan the most about those sort of thing tend to be the least likely to put their money where their mouth is.

This is why I feel a lot of it is just noise.


#1609

Well, I took the mention to go and have a look around, here’s what Berger has that’s grabbed my interest:

Nocenti spoke about The Seeds, her creator owned series with artist David Aja.

Up next, Gibbons spoke about The Originals, which will receive a reprint through Berger Books.

One imprint to keep an eye on.


#1610

Being serious, I may be mistaken but I thought I saw she was Identifying as “Latinx”.

Could be that I misread something.


#1611

I think a good portion of comic fans are minorities of some kind. At least observing conventions. Maybe 60% white male, 40% something else, and of those white males I think comics skew a bit more liberable.

So by rough math 75% of the comics buying market will be to various degrees sensitive about subjects like this. How many will act? Who knows, but it’s not going to help. And that’s the thing, this compounds with every other dumb thing Marvel has done to discredit themselves with minorities. And it’s a company built on marketing to those who feel like outsiders of some kind. That’s Marvels thing. Being different doesn’t matter, anyone can become a hero. But what’s behind the curtain matters now too, and it looks like a bunch of paunchy white guys.


#1612

Yeah, Latinx. But, and I’m not trying to go into a tangent here, I don’t subscribe to bastardizing the spanish language. My college decided to rechristen its Latino Heritage Month celebration as “Latinx Heritage Month” and I thought…“Well, that’s an oxymoron”.

It’s more the general/umbrella enforcement of it I’m seeing than the individual usage, I’ll admit. It’s an incorrect usage of intent when people do that. But it also feels weird that this non-latino would use a word made for latinos (latinx) in the first place. It’s meant to be a non-binary terms for latinos.


#1613

And as things like Manga with it’s massive female readership and the hugely profitable Fast and the Furious with it diverse cast show, there’s a mostly untapped potential for mainstream comics to access and escape its dwindling audience and profits. They’re clearly trying to attract that audience after seeing how successful comics like Batgirl and Ms Marvel are and moves like this aren’t going to help them in that arena.


#1615

Wait wasn’t this whole pseudonym thing somthing Marvel was doing at some point right around that time? I remember there were at least a few other “mysterious” writters… one being simply “X” don’t remember who that ended up being… I think Chuck Austen also had another persona…

Anyways, non-story, CB is well known for helping break a lot of minority new talent at Marvel, so all the “oh he took an asian creator’s job” is bullshit.


#1616

Sorry, what I meant was, how many of the white guys complaining about this stuff are buying the comics anyway.

I feel we’ve hit peak outrage, especially on the behalf of others, and it’s quite difficult to separate the real issues out from the guff.

It’s hard to tell on the forum with these things because the majority of us are male, western and white.

Marvel have pushed really hard to increase the diversity of their characters and creators in recent years, probably to their detriment because it’s been so heavy handed, but that’s another debate.
I just dont see anyone of a reasonable mind looking at this past incident with CB as cancelling out all that good work and not buying their comics over it.


#1617

I think that’s a lot of what people are saying except it is the white guys saying it most likely. Responses from people who see this as a form of yellow face have come from some Asian creators, and it is more of a problem with Marvel’s claim to be promoting diversity but completely ignoring problems with diversity when they pop up in its management.

Now, I’m someone who likes the stories where white people go to a different culture and somehow become heroes in that culture. DANCES WITH WOLVES is still one of my favorite movies. I’ve been a big TARZAN fan forever. Recently, you got a version of the same thing with WIND RIVER. Not so much a fan of The Last Samurai, but I liked SHOGUN a lot.

That’s also apparently the sort of stuff Akira Yoshida wrote.

Marvel’s white heroes go to a fantasy ideal of Japan and becoming Samurai or Ninja heroes to the people there. Again, I don’t mind those kinds of stories and generally get into them. I don’t necessarily expect Sioux tribespeople to like DANCES WITH WOLVES (though they might have loved it and real Sioux did act in the movie) or Japanese people to get into THE LAST SAMURAI or KILL BILL (though I believe those films were very popular in Japan), but I would find it a little distasteful if the people who wrote those movies used a false name and claimed to belong to the race or nationality depicted. It implies an authority on the cultures that I would find deceptive even if I liked the movies.

It’s not as if there is all this outrage for no reason. The reason it is so intense is that everyone in authority has been ignoring it for so long. From sexual harassment and actual assault not just in the entertainment industry, but in the corporate, academic and military spheres, to severely unaddressed situations among poor minorities - things like not just the police shootings that lead to only very light or no punishment, but the fact that so many poor black people and immigrants find themselves incarcerated simply because they can’t pay parking tickets or municipal fines or homeless because they can’t pay property taxes and then see the house they bought and paid for years ago sold for next to nothing to rich speculators who bought the tax lien from a government that is supposed to represent and protect the poor.

This outrage is of course more intense at Marvel now because of a few problematic statements they made about their own diversity initiative at a convention not that long ago. Essentially, Marvel asked for it, and outrage is always going to be more intense when it comes to entertainment because, naturally, that’s what people are looking at. It’s the reason so much more attention is given to sexual harassment in Hollywood while hardly anyone has seen The Invisible War.

At the same time, like you point out, Marvel has been doing better when it comes to diversity and they really should be able to and should be actively addressing this problem by pointing out that Cebulski was hired even with his past mistake taken into consideration because he will be able to make their diversity goals a reality.

Not sure if this is the way to go, but it’s a start:

Now, I do take the position that people take offense rather than give it. If I’m offended then, honestly, it’s my action, not the fault of what offends. I have to express that rationally than expect others to defend it.

However, though some outrage over racial and social problems may be too extreme or irrational, I can see where it is coming from, and honestly, it is really up to the authorities to address it after so long ignoring it.


#1618

Chuck Austen used to work under his birthname, Chuck Beckum, but changed it for personal reasons, which he was upfront about. It was not a “persona”, was not a front and not anything to do with getting around editorial rules. There’s a difference between having a pen name and outright lying about your identity.


#1619

That is so awesomely insane, I had to google to see if it was Steve Gerber story from the 70s I’d forgotten about.