Which is why I said it wouldn’t have been a problem to tie her family into Cottonmouth’s plot and give her some actual motivation.
Oh I didn’tknow that, but again, it was waaay too forced. I mean, come on, at first she’s fleeing the whole SH thing (in DD) and fine, then she does an 180 degree on it and goes back to Harlem… and by luck she hooks up with Luke again, and up to that point it’s fine.
But the romantic angle was completely unnecessary and out of nowhere. First of all, what a bitch-move to totally steal Jessica’s lover (and remember, Claire doesn’t know how Luke and Jessica ended up) and secondly, what? what was it that made them click? 'Cause I didn’t really feel it… =/
Nuh-uh, it was too forced. It would’ve been much better if they’d just become friends and partners (in a work-related way). At this point I’m wondering if she’s aslo gonna hook up with Danny… u_u
They don’t call her the Night Nurse for nothing.
Yeah, I didn’t really care for the Luke/Claire romance angle either. She was decidedly anti-vigilantism with Matt but is pro-active about it with Luke, which was strange. Plus, as you say, there was next to no consideration given to their respective relationships with Jessica (not sure of the timeline here but it seems like it has only been a few months since Kilgrave). Not to mention that the Luke/Misty relationship had way more potential, especially with (spoilers for the finale) Misty getting her 'fro on and seemingly becoming a private eye rather than a police detective. Not to mention the mother of that kid from the barber shop. Is she never gonna get that cup of coffee??
Personally I didn’t see it as forced, people in intense situations tend to hook-up, haven’t you seen Speed? That’s, like, the moral of that film
Seriously though, from a writing perspective it’s a pretty good idea as it creates very inter-personal connections, tensions and issues before all the characters have to work together in Defenders.
Talking about Defenders, I really wish they had just housed all 4 (and Punisher) solo stories within one show, with all the disparate story lines happening concurrently and crossing through one another. It could have been up there with GOT and The Wire in terms of epic-ness.
Well, as someone posted, she’s from Harlem. She’s just going home. Her changed feelings about vigilantism come right out of Season 2 of Daredevil where she quits her job after the hospital tries to cover up her coworkers being killed by undead ninjas and patients being kidnapped. . From that point on, she’s lost faith in the system and it shows in her interactions with Cage, and especially Misty.
I wouldn’t have been as interested in the series if they had… “housed all 4 (and punisher) solo stories within one show”
I really liked that each show had its own tone and style, they all felt different from each other and yet consistent. I’m worried Defenders might feel more like a generic team up and might not push for a unique spin/flavour.
I probably would feel it as strongly if every single one didn’t have 4 or 5 episodes worth of dead weight in the amount of padding. To me there’s just so much more could have been done with that time by using other Defenders and creating a few more intricate plot lines.
I’m intrigued to see how Daredevil’s super-flippy mega-ninja combat skills are complimented by Luke Cage’s fighting style of “mild annoyance”.
Maybe, but I don’t think any of the shows had dead weight / padding. (“Intricate”) Plot is only one aspect of a show - I think there is something to be said for watching character moments, letting the show breathe and living in that world.
And trying to fit all the characters in one series would probably be a smush. Not giving enough time to the supporting characters and world building.
For Luke Cage I thought Mike Colter & the cast was really watchable and I enjoyed exploring Harlem and Hip Hop culture.
But a similar thing could be said of LOTR extra extended editions, as some people think those films were long enough (in the theatrical cut) and didn’t need to see the extended material.
While I’ve not been as down on the pacing of the Netflix shows as other people on here, I’ve found that on rewatch I dont mind the pace at all.
But those things are generally well realized, so what I’m saying here is that the plot going places for no reason to fill time in each show means the scenes within them don’t have the same narrative impact. Plot should feel natural and sit behind all those other things. 8 episodes is plenty when the only plot is - bad guy arrives - good guy decides to fight bad guy - bad guy wins a battle - good guy wins war. some great films can do that in 90 mins and have all the things you’ve said, the Marvel shows have over ten hours to play with!
Like GOT, Westworld, The Wire… those type of smushes?
I’m being facetious, of course, but it’s not like Defenders isn’t a doable thing on a long term basis, and adding all the characters into the mix allows far more options that the basic hero plot line and it’s variants that all four shows follow. We could have easily had 20 episodes of stuff dedicated to the Defenders as a team and still have easily hit all the marks individually for characters that have already been hit, only in a more succinct and exciting fashion.
Just finished the 9th & 10th episodes and, holy cra,p were they badly written. I really hope they get a new showrunner and writing staff for the next season because I so want to like this series but can’t at the moment. Seriously, the moment when Mariah some how segues from police brutality to arming the police with better weapons without a single person speaking up or complaining was the most unbelievable thing in a show already packed with implausible moments. Following that up with Diamondback outdrawing Missy and a shootout where no innocent people are caught in the crossfire was just adding insult to injury.
Generally speaking, yes, sure. But Jessica Jones (which I think is the only one of the shows with massive plot/pacing problems) didn’t do that - I wish it had, I’d have been more interested in seeing more Jessica Jones PI stuff. Instead, it just repeated fruitless attempts to get to the Purple Man. He’s almost captured slash captured, oh no he got away! And now he’s done something terrible to someone! Rinse and repeat until episode 8 when the story finally moves on from that.
I have caught up and I enjoyed Luke Cage but it suffers again from the same problem as the other Netflix shows of not enough plot for the length of the series. It’s a bit daft they don’t seem to have learnt much from that when as a subscription show they can make it as long as they want.
At this point I think we have to assume that they have their reasons for making their series a certain length. (Home video releases may be a part of that - Daredevil just got released on DVD and Blu-Ray, and Jessica Jones is on the way soon.)
So given that the series length seems to be set in stone, I think the answer is to provide material that suits that length better, even if that means a couple of different, separate storylines over the course of a series.
That’s what they did in Daredevil season 2, though, and I think that worked fine really (there are roblems with DD S2, but plot isn’t one of them).
With Cage, I’m only up to episode 7 but I really don’t see the problem of too-little-plot. It doesn’t really get repetitive, mainly because when it could, they switch villains.
That plot problem was definitely one Jessica Jones had and Daredevil S1 to a lesser extent, but it’s not one of Luke Cage’s many issues, to my mind.
Jessica Jones was the most repetitive, it’s like a 1970s Doctor Who story where they get captured and escape every other episode to provide cliffhangers. I am later in Luke Cage and we have a couple of hours in one location that really could have been 20 minutes.
[quote=“Christian, post:137, topic:8211, full:true”]
That’s what they did in Daredevil season 2, though, and I think that worked fine really (there are problems with DD S2, but plot isn’t one of them).[/quote]
Yep, I agree, that’s one of the things I was thinking of when I wrote that post. Having separate sections to that season of DD worked quite well, I think, even if they struggled slightly to draw it altogether in a compelling way at the end.
Really, I would be fine with four episodes for one story, four episodes for another, and then a concluding five-episode story (say).
Daredevil season 2 sort of split up its storylines but not really. The second half of the season still followed up on the Punisher stuff from the first half of the season, only it got relegated to a bizarre side story with Karen and, really, took time away from fleshing out whatever was meant to be going on with Elektra & The Ninjas (which somebody should totally use as their band name). I think both stories would have been better served if they had been totally separate mini-seasons of 6 or 7 episodes each.