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Justice League - Pregame (Critical Reviews, Musings, etc. - No Spoilers)


I rarely fixate on bad FX. Part of the reason I never really got into Babylon Five was because of its video game effects. I mean, I get that the show had a small budget, so it affected stuff like that, and the kinds of actors in some of the roles (I think Ivanova was a terrible character because of the terrible acting behind her, for instance), but at a certain point it was clearly because there was a lack of awareness about the limitations not being taken into account. Otherwise, it’s just a part of the game.

These days, like Spider-Man in the original Sam Raimi, which was half the reason that was the first massive Marvel success, FX really became spectacle for the sake of spectacle. But that was being taken for granted as soon as it first appeared on a wide scale in the ‘90s. So to a certain extent, that’s another of those curious modern ironies, that the effects are kind of like the animation movies used to blatantly employ, or like stop-motion animation (which is considered a lost art form by its adherents). They’re never going to be “realistic enough.” That’s why they’re best appreciated in all-CGI animated movies, the one genre where they were embraced enthusiastically from the start. But it’s something no one much cares to admit.


For me B5 took a bold design tack that outweighed the SFX limitations, no show will ever have this kind of creepy-as-fuck ship:

Plus, as you say, it was a TV show, made on the cheap, so those watching it adjusted their expectations.


Just liked Red Dwarf.


Most of the youtube reviewers I’ve seen seem to like the film for the most part. But there maybe those that I haven’t seen that didn’t like it…


They did do some stuff really, really well, notably Londo Mollari, G’Kar, and Kosh. And Walter Koenig was always a highlight.


Interesting read…



Any critique is fair and valid (not just in general, I’m talking about this movie).
There are things all over the place, but I put blinders on expecting that (seriously, and it is a hard mind-set to do) as I really wanted to like this movie. Did it and liked it, but don’t have the strength to fight every movie (still very willing to go down swinging for MoS).

Yes, I think many reviewers take the fashionable attack on the DCEU, and very pro-Marvel (only CA:WS is beyond critique), but they have a point and won’t let go.

I promise to hit the Spoiler thread before Monday, but am going to suggest keeping Snyder in the DCEU, but give him something else (Plastic Man? New Gods? Green Arrow?) and consulting (on casting and basics).

-JL 2 should be a continuation of that post credit scene (Yes!) and arrive in 2020.
-MoS 2 in 2021 (Supergirl, Brainiac)
-JL3 in 2022 (Brainiac (won’t let shit go 'cause D/S coming) and also sets up Supergirl/31st century/LSH)
-2023 and 2024 (edit this space with cool ideas after more beer)

  • 2025 JL 4 Darkseid

Started typing, now expecting an X-mas announcement about the future.
Vaughn, George Miller, others with the love also ok.

Also about the “started typing”: I might be getting silly, but not taking it back.
Ahh, later.

What should Warners do next?

He’s currently suing WB over Mad Max: Fury Road profits.


So, ah, I kind of need to watch it again. The first time I saw it, I turned into a six year old and all I could do was squee, because I liked it so much.

So, I’m gonna watch it again, because I definitely need more unmitigated squee in my entertainment options.



Let’s look at an example, then. A non-superhero movie, ideally not big budget, from last year or so that we’ve both seen. Let’s look at the reviews and see how bad the critics are. “Hunt for the Wilderpeople” maybe? “Paterson”? “The Nice Guys”? “Hail, Cesar”? “10 Cloverfield Lane”? Still haven’t seen Manchester by the Sea and Arrival, I’m afraid.


I’m glad you said this because I was starting to feel slightly paranoid when posting after attempting to watch it the other week.

There was absolutely a critical and social agenda pushing this movie, nothing anyone says will change what I really think about that - because it’s a mediocre a superhero film you are likely to see.

I’d say the main positive about it is that it’s better structured than than MoS, BvS & SS - so perhaps that came across in the critical reaction; although retracting slightly, MoS was actually a really good movie until the 3rd act and I never got that far with WW.

I think it’s a good thing as speaking to some of my friends who took their daughters to see it, their litttle girls came out absolutely buzzing after watching WW and this is probably the first time they’ve had that from a superhero movie with a female character as the lead - someone for them to look up to. So I totally get it from that point of view.

Other than that I don’t deny people enjoyed it, but I’m sure being objective and looking at the film without the female agenda, it’s probably a 3 out of 5, 6 out of 10, you will enjoy this if you want to see more of what you have seen before, type movie. It didn’t merit anywhere near the hype. That was manufactured.



I was only yanking your chain, I really enjoyed your post, to be honest it talked me into making the effort to go and see it, I was going to wait until it came to on-demand.

I’m hoping to go tomorrow although my mate wants to go see Thor, which I’d also like to see, so maybe need to wait until next week.


I don’t think you can be ‘objective’ like that about these movies. As our discussions show, they’re a highly subjective experience.

I think we just have to accept that we all have different tastes, and people will all like different things. That doesn’t make anyone wrong.

I just think it becomes a bit insulting to those who did enjoy Wonder Woman to ascribe it all to some kind of feminist-agenda bias.


I’d go and see Thor. It’s really good and will be leaving screens faster as it has been out 3 weeks already.

I’m going to try and see Justice League in the week, maybe Tuesday.


Sorry Dave, I’ve not worded what I was saying that well.
I don’t doubt that a people enjoyed the movie on an individual basis. It comes across as pretty well made and structured well, without doing anything particularly exciting or new.
If I had to take my kids to see it at the cinema for example, I’m sure it would be a reasonably pleasant viewing experience.

I just doubt that it comes close to the widespread acclaim that it got. For a start it was another massive, overlong, boring, origin story, which I’ve seen complaints about on other superhero movies for years, but Wonder Woman got a free pass on that.


Given the poor box office predictions and the projections now being made I imagine blood pressures at Warners are really high. This doesn’t look like it will come close to a billion.


I agree with you to an extent. It was a straightforward, conventional superhero origin story that didn’t really offer anything that hadn’t been seen before, other than a female lead.

But I think that was quite refreshing for audiences used to either the grimness of the DC movies or the sarcastic and subversive humour of the Marvel films. There was a sincerity about it that people appreciated, I think.

I can definitely see how longtime superhero fans might feel it was a bit by-numbers, though.


There’s nothing wrong with the numbers, it about how you count them.

I don’t go to a Chinese restaurant and complain that I got Chinese food, rather than something else. I know going in I’m getting my noodles and rice, I just want them cooked properly.

New and different does not equal good. It can still be done badly despite being new and/or different.

I liked ‘WonderWoman’ because I liked it; characters, most of the story, presentation, most of the action. If it bored some people then that’s a shame, but that doesn’t mean it was objectively boring, it means it was subjectively boring to the bored people, and it doesn’t mean the people who weren’t bored (hi!) are making it up or “gave the film a pass”.

We really, honestly, genuinely liked something that some other people didn’t.

It aint any more (or less) than that.