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Jupiter's Circle #4 - Chat-Back for Lettercol!


#22

I actually prefer Circle to Legacy by a fair margin.
Legacy, personally, doesn’t really get that interesting until the time skip.
It sort of goes through the motions that one expects and really could have entirely been covered in a flashback post-time skip.

I mean, son is manipulated by jealous relative? It doesn’t have that pop for me. If anything has been done, it was that. Jason and his family hiding out and deciding whether or not to fight back? That’s when it grew into something special.

Circle, on the other wand, is just simple. Simple, effective, tight, the characters are there to enjoy and delve into.
It’s just a sweet throwback, imo. One that doesn’t waste time and gets to the heart. It’s not as “action packed” but it’s packed of stuff that matters. Story content.
Also - Batman becomes Lex Luthor…that’s just neat.


#25

You have the right to think whatever sucks that you want but as you took the time to register an account on the creator’s website, this is the question I would have led with.


#26

Fair enough. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of Mark’s work. Even smaller stuff like MPH. But Circle just doesn’t hit the spot for me. Maybe because it’s a prequel and can’t have major plot twists. Maybe because it lacks action. Maybe because I can’t bring myself to care about Fitz at all. Richard has an interesting story, but I don’t find myself caring about him either. Like I said, George’s arc will probably be interesting, but till now, kind of blah.


#27

You can probably refer to my longer post above - but there’s something I wanted to add in addition to this post.
It’s totally fine that it’s not your thing. I just wouldn’t have said that “it sucks”. It doesn’t. It’s just not your thing. There’s kind of a difference.

Also, with prequels plot twists aren’t necessary. Just something solidly put together. Journey, not the destination etc. Action? That’s really not the point. Caring about them? That’s cool - you don’t have to. I didn’t care about Fitz either - but the story was entertaining as one about a man’s midlife crisis. But yeah It’s not your thing.


#28

Exactly right. When I told friends about the gay storyline in the first two issues a couple said gay superheroes had been done before, but I explained you’d never seen a gay superhero having to hide it from his team-mates and being blackmailed by the authorities. Ditto, ‘superheroes with personal problems’ has been done but I can pretty damn well guarantee we’ve never seen a main hero in a team leave his wife and kids for a girl from a teen team and try to hang out with people her age, embarrassing himself.

It’s funny because it’s plot-lines either from real life or from 60s/70s-style cinema but imprinted upon a super heroic template. Younger readers in particular and readers who haven’t been in a big relationship I wonder will maybe not get as much out of it as twenty and thirty-something readers as this series isn’t about action and big reveals, especially not in the first volume. It’s been SO much fun to write as it’s been stepping outside convention.

I honestly can’t wait too have this book on my shelf. This whole 22 issue thing has been a genuine blast to write. It’s kind of everything I’ve wanted to do with superheroes and I couldn’t wait to switch the computer on in the morning. It’s great that we’ve had so many great comments on it. It’s the book I hand to non comic readers now when they ask what I get up to :smile:

MM


#29

Right on, Chief.

And, as the saying goes, all ideas have been done before. It’s about the execution.
And the execution has been tops.


#30

Even if one is the best chef in the whole world, there will be dishes someone will not like. The thing to do is offer an alternative! Maybe instead of Circle, boyo might like Nemesis. Plenty of action there!

BTW, Chief, what happened to the “real names” thing? What’s your opinion of this now?

And Happy Independence Day! I thought you Scots were going to get one of your very own, but the time has to be just right, huh?
:checkered_flag: <- maybe you could get NASCAR?


#31

I don’t want to derail thread so just quick answer. Real names important thirteen years ago when we started as Internet was the Wild West but now everyone on Twitter and facebook and behave well. It’s not as crazy I think.

MM


#32

Cool! Thank you, Chief.

I still kinda prefer at least knowing first names. Still feel silly responding to 69poohbear or IzaCrazyDawg, mostly when it’s a more serious topic.

Guess it’s like secret identities have become lately, some have 'em, some don’t, and within some circles everybody calls each other by first names.

Y’know, like in Jupiter’s Legacy and Jupiter’s Circle -
Now On SALE!

:red_circle: :large_blue_circle: :white_circle: :black_circle: :green_heart: <- ran out of circles!


#33

Ya that was the best part for sure. Probably the best part of Circle is yet to come and I’ll like it more after George’s promising story.


#34

Quite possibly.

Overall though, I have been more hooked by the beginning of Circle than I was by Legacy.


#35

I think what Ive come to realize is that I really enjoy how this is an honest look at a weird time in the past at a very interesting group of people age wise. Watching this generation of people go through such a transitionary period is fascinating enough, let alone through it in what has so far, been a pretty human look at people having super powers.


#36

This interview’s kind of relevant to Jupiter’s legacy, and worth a read:

In brief, Ishiguro is a respected non-genre writer who wrote a fantasy novel, and the critics on both side of the fence (genre and literature) didn’t know what to make of this. Gaiman points out int he interview that setting and genre are kind of different. A cowboy story has to have a bar-room brawl, a shoot-out at high noon etc., but you can write a story about cowboys without it being a cowboy story, where they do other things.

Jupiter’s Legacy is not a superhero comic, but rather a comic about superheroes. I’d say it’s closer to a romance comic, like the old ones that Simon and Kirby used to do before they got around to creating Captain America. We know these characters fight aliens and supervillains and all the stuff superheroes do, but we mostly see that in flashback or at the aftermath of the battle. The real stories are their romantic relationships and the fallout. (So far)

This second arc shows there’s no authorial consent or condemnation of the characters. Its like a camera pointed at them and they do what they do for good or bad, which is kind of relative. You feel for Joyce. But what the barman says in #3 makes sense too. You feel gutted for everyone at the end. Its interesting to look back at the first arc in this light now - the homophobia that Blue Bolt faced was just shown in a really flat “this is how it was” way.

These two points have made me like this comic much more than I did at first. and might work for you, spidey

  1. Its a romance comic
  2. Things happen for no good reason in it, like real life.

#37

Little known fact: Mark Millar’s given name was ‘Angus P. Eabarcrombaigh’. He changed it so it would fit on the cover of a comic book.


#38

Jupiter’s Circle #4 needs to come with Reading Instructions. To wit: This is a “masterpiece issue”. Millar’s collaboration with Davide and Francesco obviously happened quickly, and it’s my bet there was more-than-usual conversation about who was thinking and feeling what in each panel. So, each panel needs to be viewed and read, then carefully considered. There is a ton of information condensed into each facial expression, the posture of each person, the absolute density of dialogue.

One needs to have Legacy and the previous Circles at hand to keep track of the characters sometimes. Maybe shrink the inside cover credits and do a Kingdom Come - like shot saying who is who. (I know, Mark! But it’s a big cast over two generations!) I had instant empathy with Fitz Jr. that was proven out as events unfolded. It all looks so simple! Yet the subtexts go on echoing forever! Walter may be manipulative as Rasputin, but fascinates me. (I have a horrid thought that I would turn out similar to Walter should some aliens empower me, but I’m just not that evil; it’s the power set that’s attractive, not what he does with it.)

Nothing is simple. Fitz had April figured out from the get-go, but dealt with it from a ceaselessly narcissistic point of view. Being clever, he understood and knew what he needed to do to get lifelong care. Fitz Jr. had never bought this, and the situation merely removed any lingering doubt. Everyone with powers and those around them are pulled in opposite directions. Does one indulge their own urges and desires? Or does one acknowledge the greater needs to limit behavior for the sake of continuing society? This seems, to me, the essence of Good versus Evil. Does one indulge their own desires, not caring if it hurts others? Evil. Does one help others improve themselves while getting one’s own needs met? Good.

Go ahead; think of this as “just another comic” and read through it in a big hurry. You will be confused, somewhat upset - with some anger, perhaps - and wondering “What happened?” That, friend, is information overload. There is so much happening the reader does themselves a disservice to read quickly. I read it digitally, in Guided View, which may be a good method for this issue, as it allows each panel to be contemplated upon. Each facial expression speaks volumes of history and depth.

Superior artistic creations, to me, reveal an essence. The critical factor to an artists skill is deciding what to leave out. Jupiter’s Circle #4 is absolutely devoid of fat. Every word counts. Every posture and facial expression is a far-too-long Miqque-Post.

Much love and respect to Wilfredo Torres for all the other issues, produced under extreme circumstances! However, Mark, it seems clear you’re going to have to do more with Davide and Francesco in the future! They came off the bench and hit a bases-clearing home run in the bottom of the ninth with the score tied, bases loaded and two out!


#39

Thank you, sir. That’s exactly what I was going for here. Mike C above also nails that this is a relationship comic that happens to be about superheroes, the action scenes taking place between the REAL drama.

I can’t wait until you see the whole thing. JC in particular goes to places you would never imagine. I think these two connected series are the most ambitious things I’ve ever tried. There’s A LOT in this, like you said, but I’ve spent ages stripping everything down to the barest minimum in the most non-showy way, hopefully.

MM


#40

My review from the New Comics thread.

Jupiter’s Circle #4 - Great stuff. The fill-in art was amazing and matched Wilfredo’s style extremely well. Great job to Gianfelice and Mortarino for pinch hitting under tough circumstances. I still love what Mark is doing with this book. The drama behind the action is just amazing. It reminds me a bit of the first scene in Inglorious Basterds and the last scene in Whiplash. Both films and this book are intense without big action sequences. It’s such a compliment to Jupiter’s Circle. Keep up the great work, Chief.


#41

@Mark_Millar - Is there any chance of a Who’s Who type book for Jupiter’s Legacy/Circle. I really love the book but have some difficulty keeping up with the characters that aren’t the leads. The whole thing is a bit like Kingdom Come without the decades of continuity. Have we been given names for the the teen group or is everyone just guessing? Are some of them Brandon and Chloe’s older siblings?


#42

That’s an interesting idea. There’s only ten of them in JC though. There’s the six in the main team plus the 4 in Teen Scene and we only really see Teen Scene for a moment, their inclusion just there for how awkward they make The Flare feel with his teen girlfriend as opposed to any great crossover or anything with the main team.

But yeah, I think a grid thing would be really fun for the eventual bumper collection maybe. That’s an interesting idea!

MM


#43

Thanks, Mark. I’m enjoying the story fine without knowing exactly who everyone is but thought it might be interesting. So how do you envision a bumper collection? Both Legacy and Circle in one big hardcover or a hardcover for each? I don’t double dip on a lot of things but this one I definitely will.