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Game of Thrones - the TV show (Spoilers for the TV show)


If I’m not mistaken, A Feast for Crows was originally part of A Dance with Dragons. The fourth book, ADWD, became so long that he had to split it into a separate title. And even then, some stuff from ADWD was held back for The Winds of Winter.

I think he’ll probably need an eighth book. Which is kind of academic at this point, because I doubt he’ll be able to finish the series. TWOW won’t come out until at least eight years after ADWD, and since the story keeps growing and Martin’s output is slowing… the math isn’t on his side.


That’s what some said about Tolkien…


Yeah, the series was originally going to be a trilogy. Can you even picture the scope of the story being done in three books, even if they were all Peter Hamilton/Neal Stephenson tomes?

I won’t be surprised if GRRM can’t complete the series for one reason or another and another author picks up up for him. I think I’ve said before I’d be OK if James SA Corey did it, The Expanse is almost done, and Ty Franck was apparently a big part of the writing process for A Storm of Swords.


Honestly, yes, I have no problem imagining the series as a trilogy. Especially since the last couple books have had massive amounts of filler and unnecessary characters. When the obviously fake prince and Lady Stoneheart showed up I wanted to bang my head against a wall.


Yeah, but what do you cut out of the first three books as they are to make room for even the utterly necessary plot points from 4 and 5, as well whatever comes afterwards?

(and I’m not disagreeing that there’s a lot of flab in 4 and 5 that could go. Even though I’m one of the eight people who likes the Dorne chapters)


That’s what a good editor is for. :wink:


The only note GRRM got said “more Dorne”. The problem is, that wound up being the Quentyn chapters in ADWD


I’m… not sure if this is a joke.


O, Tom Bombadil
Tom Bombadil-O!
Bright green his jacket is,
and his boots are yellow!


Oh there’s a lot of fat you could cut from the show as it is, so I imagine there’s even more fat in the books…


Sorry, but calling Game of Thrones fat is like saying Salma Hayek is fat. Technically right but also not right at all.


More like calling an off season bodybuilder fat. :smile:


Still quite a bit of fat that could’ve been cut from the show… Some of the Iron Bank scenes come to mind for exemple, in hindsight, they were comepletely unnecessary, considering how the Iron Bank ended up having a VERY minor role… plenty of stuff like that in fact. A lt of Danny’s journey through Essos could’ve been better cut and handled in general, too.


I can understand expanding the series from three to seven books, but the pacing of books four and five are painful. It’s to the point that I can’t imagine him wrapping it up in 7 books because the pace is ridiculously slow. The endless march to Winterfell in book 5 is maybe GRRM at his worst. It’s just bloat and a complete waste. I can understand maybe the need to write it as part of his process to write the story, but a good editor would have cut that down the way the show did. Problem is the series is so huge that the publisher probably doesn’t bother editing and just lets GrrM do whatever.


The Iron bank apparently comes back into it as they pay for the Golden Corsairs/Knights/Mercs (forget the name) to back Urine Greyjoy’s return to attack King’s Landing.


Yeah I know, but that’s just one debt collector from the IB… It would’ve worked just as well without the time they spent sending Lord whothefuckknowswho to Essos and all those scenes from a couple seasons back.


Yeah, but I think I read somewhere that Martin won’t allow anyone else to finish the series. I’m not sure if he’s one of those authors like Pratchett who wants all of his story notes, unfinished works, and unpublished manuscripts destroyed upon his death, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

And back to the scope of A Song of Ice and Fire, yeah, I think the original idea that it would be a trilogy sounds optimistic. Even book one comes off like the opening chapter in a much larger story.

I also think Martin derailed the series after A Storm of Swords, when he originally planned to have a five tear time jump before the fourth book, A Dance with Dragons. I think that removing the five year gap threw his timetable off, and he’s had to do so much course correction with the story that he’s been spinning his wheels in the metaphorical mud, both in the storyline and the writing process, for the past twenty years. I think that, had he stuck to the original plan with the five year jump instead of over-thinking it, the saga would be finished by now.


Which would be kind of a funny stance considering he’s letting a TV series finish the story for him first. Granted the show has changed plenty, but I have to assume the ending will be the ending he initially planned.

But I agree that his inability to grasp the 5 year time jump he wanted to do seemed to derail the series. The way the last couple books have come off is that Martin can’t seem to wrap his head around the story unless he writes out every last detail.


In the unfortunate event of his death or incapacitation before he can finish the series, he might not get a say in whether the conclusion gets published or not. Even though GRRM retains copyright, his contract may stipulate a certain amount of books get published.

Yeah, he’s talked about “cutting the Merenese knot” a few times, trying to figure out how to get the characters from Essos back to Westeros in a timely manner, but also hitting the plot points about Danerys learning to be a queen. And as much as I’ve enjoyed parts of A Feast for Crows and A Dance With Dragons, they do drag the plot down to a snail’s pace. Sticking with the time jump might have been the best way to do it.


I know the show is leading up to the heroic Jon Snow getting it all but I am expecting some twists.

The Great War and the dragon fights should be good, but then there is what happens to the different characters and storylines.

What would you like to see happen next season?