Cannot believe this particular group of viewers missed a major point.
Tyrion, like most males, fell in love with Danerys. When she met Jon Snow, she told Tyrion Snow was “too little for me”. This is what set off Tyrion’s strong emotional responses. He’s been fairly level-headed, but started cracking right at that moment. Standing outside her chamber whilst humpety-bumpety was going on must have felt like treason. Danerys lied. Another powerful warrior, like the short list left behind. How torn up and alone must Tyrion feel at this point? Verys has gone all weird, and apparently does not have the level of trust he had. No woman for Tyrion. When he had some wine in Cersei’s chamber it looked medicinal, like the first he had drunk in a long while. What is happening in that brilliant head?
And the bit with Urine Greyjoy was totally botched, Christian. That made no linear sense. Nor did some of what Cersei said. The reaction to the Dead, the plot with both the Iron Bank and Greyjoy, and the pregnancy: none of this is lining up as a consistent whole.
To see this makes me think either the show writers are trying to paint her in a different light intentionally, or are completely failing to get across the Cersi from the books. Reading chapters from Cersi’s perspective was almost painful, and gave you a real sense of her madness. So much so that seeing people say things like this makes me think their out of their minds for believing it. I have to remind myself that I have a different perspective of the character having the book material to back up my perceptions of her, and it definitely clouds my interpretation of how the show’s character is supposed to be represented.
But in the end I do feel that they are trying to convey how incredibly mad she is, but failing given some of the major scenes with her this season. I.e. with the women of dorne, making a promise to fight the dead that she isn’t holding to, and threatening to kill Jaime for leaving her side.
Jim is blacking out a lot of the things Cersei has done - she has by now definitely become someone you’d have to call evil. Although I would agree that with many of the things she did especially in the early seasons, we could mostly appreciate her reasons.
But yeah, not having read the books, there was nothing this season that made me think she was mad. Ruthless, erratic, a bit crazy… but not insane. Seems like that’s not what they’re going for here.
Cersei will abort the child fearing the whitewalkers, not wanting to bring the child into the world, and Jamie will lose his shit and strangle her to death. King and Queenslayer.
Cersei is a great character, but she started out spoiled and selfish and has become, through a series of traumatic experiences, really nasty and paranoid, a danger to herself and to those around her.
Even if Robert wasn’t a drunken wastrel Cersei would be a cold, manipulative character who indulges in court intrigue, making and breaking people at will.
Motive remains her biggest flaw.
I’ve read the books. Cersi has just looked out for Cersi. Everything she’s done I think can be justified as right from her standpoint. I’ll attempt a list of crimes:
- Brans fall. Jamie did this.
- Killing the butchers boy. The Houbd ran him over.
- Killing Sansa’s dog. Ok, she’s guilty here.
- Roberts death. Abusive husband.
- Neds arrest. He was going to ruin her life.
- Neds death. Jofferys idea.
- Murdering Roberts bastards. Jofferys orders.
- Tyrions trial. She thought he murderer Joffery.
- Blowing up the sept. They’d imprisoned, starved and tortured her. Stripped her naked and marched her through the streets. And were to put her on trial. All because she fucked Jamie.
- Not sending her armies north. Smart strategy maybe?
Everyone in this show has mass murdered at some point. There’s no-one innocent here.
She’s the one who gave the sept power. They acted non-discrimitory punishing Cersi just like they would punish anyone accused of such crimes, and when Cersi realized the power she gave them was not beneficial to her power move in the end, she blew up the sept full of many innocents. That’s evil and insane.
It’s clear after Sansa turns the tables on Littlefinger that she has had some sort of conversation with Bran, but we don’t get to see it. When did it take place?
We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, “I need your help,” or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, “Oh, s—.”
I think this is evidence that she’s a well-developed character and we’re able to understand her take on things. I don’t think it proves she’s not evil, just that she’s not cartoonishly evil.
She’s not evil, she’s just drawn that way.
GOT had a little bit of fantasy trope fatigue this season, but at least it seemed to move. I thought most of the dialogue heavy scenes never really delivered while the action scenes overdelivered. The pacing and passage of time seemed far too accelerated with things like Jon showing up at Dany’s castle in hardly no time and then zipping up north of the wall even faster. I mean, is Westeros roughly the size of New Zealand or something? Meanwhile, even though it seems like it should (and actually has in previous seasons) take more time for these characters to travel between these various positions on the map, it didn’t seem like it much time passed for characters in stationary Westeros or King’s Landing. In the end, it seemed like a much more straightforward fantasy series than a season that built upon what came before.
That’s not the point I’m making. It’s not portrayal, it’s that her actions have equivalents against our heroes. Blowing up the sept is like Dany’s mass crucifixion or Jon’s battle against the Wildlings. They each have racked up body counts for their own interests.
No, those two are very different… Cersei blew up the scept to get rid of her personal ennemies (while also killing a lot of innocent people), Jon was defending the north (south of the wall that is) from a wildling invasion… Not all wildlings are as nice as Tormund, some of them were canibals and most of them were intent on pillaging the north and shack up there (plus they were a hostile army). That’s two massively different actions and intentions.
Danny however, yeah she’s had a mean streak, but she could be excused because she is quite young and stupid, much like Joffrey. But I’ve been on the record saying Danny is quite evil herself and not entirely unlike Cersei… however she’s grown “better” over time, in part thanks to good counseling whereas Cersei’s just grown crazier and more evil.
Oh and as for Cersei’s baby, she could simply die in childbirth along with the child… that would fulfill the prophecy IIRC, since the baby would technically be the younger sibling of the already dead 3. But, eh… I’m not even sure prophecies are an actual thing… In the case of Cersei, it always seemed more of a self-fulfilling prophecy, tbh.
No you’re wrong… Tyrion admitied he loved her to her face, but as a person and a leader, not in a sexy way… he’s not ser Friendzone. I’m failry sure it was just an ominous moment all around and the directors/writters decided to include an ominous Tyrion in the scene to hammer the point home.
But you’re right on the booze tho… that wine he drank with Cersei felt almost cathartic, but you can’t blame the guy… he barely escaped being crushed by the mountain… I would have a glass too
Jon had the battle with the Wildlings because Mance refused to bend the knee. And once he’d won the battle he let those same cannibals and so on through the gate. The entire battle was simply about Jon forcing the Wildlings (lots of innocent people) to submit to rule - something Mance knew he couldn’t get them to do. Jon’s whole arc, in fact the whole arc of the story is about those who force their power on others who don’t want it. Jon was in the Wildlings place this season, forced to bend the knee if he wanted to escape the White Walkers, and he couldn’t bring himself to do it.
I agree Tyrion isn’t in love with Dany. She’s not his type.
I think Tyrion was jealous AF that Jon was going to have her …
All in all, I actually had more of an interest in watching this season than the upcoming Star Wars movie. GoT is more interesting imho and I never thought I would say that. I don’t want to get into a SW v SoT debate so I digress…
I have to say that GRRM is up there as an author/creator with Tolkien, Rowling, and so on. Interestingly, I was going to start a thread on favorite authors/creators on comics, movies, tv, but then the board reminded me I already did about 2 years ago. So I might revive it or just move on.
I don’t remember all of the tiny details, but from what I remember Mance didn’t really have a choice in pushing forward with an attack, both because of the WW and because all the wildling tribes were intent on doing so, refusing would’ve meant chaos and more death (Mance was very Jon-like, indeed), he was doing what he had to for his people… but Jon knew that, and Mance knew that Jon knew, hence the whole Mance execution thing…
But Jon also knew he couldn’t let the wildling army go rhough to rape & pillage their way south of the wall. So yeah, he forced them to submit because he himself had to protect HIS people, but he didn’t want the wildlings to die either… So, IMO, he did the best he could out of a very shitty situation… whereas Cersei just pushed the red button 'cause she was angry at some people in the scept (who were a threat to her absolute power).
But again, I’m not saying Jon doesn’t have blood on his hands, it’s just about the intentions: Jon’s always tried to do the right thing… Cersei, by her own admission, is just an egoistical crazy asshole.