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Game of Thrones - the TV show (Spoilers for the TV show)


#2172

Exactly. Robert didn’t abuse his position of fall for personal fights. He held an even temper. He was even fair in his way of dealing with the Greyjoys.

I’m not sure in this show who else would do a better job. And if no-one fits the bill then we’re looking for someone who doesn’t exist.


#2173

It’s a lot more clear in the books, of course. He’s so despearate to prove himself to Balon because he’s been gone for so long. And of course he realises too late that the Starks are more a family to him than the Greyjoys ever will.


#2174

The seven kingdoms shouldn’t be under one ruler. It’s not a group of people who agreed to cooperate, it’s a bunch of factions who have armies and a willingness to use them.

It needs a different structure, but whether it will get one is another matter?

I don’t think GRRM thinks any of the contenders are a great choice either, he wrote them flawed. He doesn’t have a romantic view of his world.


#2175

What’s interesting is that back in series 1, Joffrey had one of the most insightful and forward thinking ideas when he said he’d have a standing army loyal to the crown instead of depending on his banners. But he never got a chance to implement that.

And it would have been terrible in his hands, but still.


#2176

I think the latest episode hinted at the idea. I don’t think it escapes the writers that Dany’s main weakness is her demand for the rule of the seven kingdoms and Jon was really offering to work with her without conceding his domain.

I have a feeling we may end with a scenario like that rather than it just being who sits upon the iron throne before the final credits. It’s Game of Thrones though so predicting it is a bit of a waste of time, they may all just die.


#2177

The nation has to have one central governing authority. Has to, otherwise there’ll be endless war. No doubt Martin is using history to critique the idea of a monarchy or a ruling class, and often in this story the best characters are the lowest - Davis, Sam, Varys for example. They’re his true heroes, that’s his underlying message. That the weak and fallen and leaders are the best of them all. More superhero geek fulfillment stuff (which I’m guessing somewhat accounts for the series success).

This story is about the current protagonists fighting for the throne, to ultimately continue the existing structure. And giving what we’ve been shown that would be a bad idea. But to move to some sort of representational democracy would still be a big step. An elected council for each of the seven kingdoms. I don’t think despite all the war that Westeros has learned to go to a new model. Plus you have a massive change in fortunes and property. And the rabble from what we’ve seen of them seem to be utter shits.

So I don’t see how this story ends well.


#2178

True but I wasn’t considering a step that far. It’s more like the kings of England and Spain agreeing to get along, agree to stay within their borders and not fight.

There is definitely a subtext, luckily never too heavy handed, about how bad an idea real monarchy is (not the pomp and no power version of constitutional monarchies in Europe and Asia). Which is of course just common sense, almost nobody in the world today believes in that and there are just a handful that exist under repressive regimes (see Saudi Arabia).


#2179

Democracy requires education and free movement of ideas. And access to capital. It’s an idea that requires infrastructure. Westeros seems be be 14th century-16th century Europe so it’s not quite democracy ready. I always find it weird in these kinds of stories seems to have things be exactly the same for hundreds of years like they invented things and then forgot how to invent any more. Part of the suspension of disbelief I suppose, but it feels a bit silly.


#2180

Sure but as I said I wasn’t proposing democracy in any way. Two monarchs agreeing a truce and agreeing on their own territory is a very long way from universal suffrage.

While there were terrible wars during those times there were very long periods where they got along socially and didn’t fight.


#2181

#2182

And once again, kindly to not discuss the contents of the leaked episodes until they air.


#2183

The quote thingy seems to be misbehaving, as in hightlight, hit “quote”, nothing happens.

We’ve seen plenty of stagnant periods. Things happen, as my mentor was wont to say “in a blaze of light”. We have seen in our own society a major Backwards movement starting about January 20th. There is an ebb and flow to progress, just as evolution goes along fairly regular then makes catastrophic leaps.


#2184

Looks like user error.


#2185

That would absolutely shock me.

PS: Pfft!


#2186

#2187

And you can bite me, too!


#2188

not without dinner and a movie first.


#2189

How about a nice hot pie?


#2190

Say…

This GoT Wiki page is really cool if you want to get more backstory on what happened or what you forgot or are too lazy to read the books:.

On a side note: Silly me… I found out that in their world, seasons aren’t a few months but cycle in YEARS and, as you know

(drumroll)

Winter is coming.

On another side note, I used to say here not to nitpick and overanalyze things, but for GoT, some of the fan theories, analysis, and commentary are very interesting so…

Carry on. :smile: .


#2191

I think @Lorcan_Nagle will still need dinner and movie first before that will happen.