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Doctor Who Thread of Space and Time: Discussing Twice Upon A Time (SPOILERS)


Allow me to blow your mind - Joanna Lumley as the Doctor. David McCallum as the companion.


Just in Whovia - John Barrowman had his appendix removed this morning. He got sick at SDCC with a bunch of pain, and it turns out they got the little vertiform bugger out just before it 'sploded. He just did a live FB post-op, so I think he’s going to be fine. (Color and mentation quite good coming out of anesthesia.) Hope he stays overnight. Home nursing by amateurs is awkward.


From Lee Sullivan’s website.

Lee Sullivan Usuals 2014


I showed the ‘reveal’ little trailer to my kids today (aged 6 and 8 and love watching Doctor Who).

My daughter read the words on screen and said ‘so they can have a 13th Doctor because there should be 12 but they changed the rules’ my boy said ‘cool’. Absolutely no mention at all of the gender change.

We bring a lot of baggage along with us as we get older.


This tickled me when I saw the trailer for it earlier …


Edit: for those who don’t know, this is a BBC thriller that Jodie’s starring in shortly.


I’ve just watched it now…was saving it until I got peace to watch in the main room on the good telly and sound system - the first part was too scary for my son so I didn’t want him watching this with me.

My sound was screwed as well, I found that really annoying given the magnitude of the ending.


Robin Ince posted this on Twitter today:

I remember buying those crisps to get the free comics, most of which were drawn by the great John Ridgeway if I recall correctly. Also Ringos were amazing, why did they stop them? :smile:


I kept those mini comics for ages - I think they were cut down stories from Doctor Who Monthly, but memory cheats…


I think they were too, in really tiny format. :smile:


Just watched the last two episodes of the series. Really enjoyed them. Capaldi’s been great throughout his tenure, and Bill was so much better than I expected her to be. This has been a fine season, and I look forward to the Christmas finale. Shame it has to end, just as they appear to have got their act together!


Yeah, so I guess I should comment on retrospect having finished the last epsiode of the season.

I’m in th same boat as Vik and what I say here will be no surprise to anyone who has read my previous posts in this thread.

Who was starting to lose me, ironic because I thought Capaldi was a great Doctor and he’s finished as my favourite of the new era. Probably next to Baker and McCoy as my favourite overall, although I did really like Tennent and Eccleson.

This series pulled me back in, in a such way I never imagined it would.
On the whole there was one epsiode out of the 12 I was a bit bored by. In recent years the hit rate has been about 50%, last season was lower.
I just thought it was fantastic, such a great range of stories, which all had a really good atmosphere.

I was back to watching Who at broadcast or as close to broadcast as possible. The delay on the last couple was just getting the peace to watch it on the good telly with no kids kicking about.
Even the Tennent seasons stacked up on my planner.
Who was exciting again. I was watching the trailer for the next episode thinking ’ I can’t wait to see where they are going next’. It’s been a long time since I even watched the spoiler for next week.

Bill was a great companion, I think Pearl Mackie was a huge part of what made this season work so well.
And Capaldi finally got some material that he deserved. It’s not fully recognised quite yet, but I’m certain the benefit of hindsight will see him remembered as one of the greatest Doctors.

There’s a lot of people who have been impressed by this season, so that’s how I know I’m not imagining the uptick in quality.
Such a shame that’s it’s all going to change now after I feel they finally got the formula right.

A good way for Moffat and Capaldi to go out, on a high.

I do fear for the future with Chibnall. I think the casting was a bit of a publicity stunt and I hope the next season isn’t just series of ‘look I’m a woman now isn’t it wonderful’ moments, and they concentrate on just making the best show they can. I have my doubts, but I’d like to be pleasantly surprised again like I was this year.

The Xmas epsiode is going to be a bittersweet end of an era, I just hope that in a few years time, after all the moaning about Moffat, we are not wishing he was still the showrunner.


Which is why I was irritated by it. Sure, they said it was only one run for Bill and the Doc at the start, but at that point no one knew how it was going to turn out. 10 eps on and it looks very different. (Hence my liking for the idea of a Twelfth Doc Adventures series from Big Finish with Capaldi and Mackie.)

I’m hoping the Xmas Special can take the edge off of this story.


I reached the Happiness Patrol today. From the sublime, layered, confident brilliance of Remembrance to… well, hmm.

It is quite clever. From the Thatcher allegories to the naming conventions, there’s a lot going on in the script. Visually it’s incredibly gaudy. On the one hand that works. The set is like something from a German expressionism film - it doesn’t even attempt to make the streets of Terra Alpha look like a real place instead of a set from an 80s music video. The garish make-up and costume designs underline the ludicrous nature of the Happiness Patrol itself. On the other hand, it frequently looks silly and ugly. Then there’s the Kandyman, which is a fun idea that should have been swiftly crossed out by the producer in the script stage.

The big problem is pacing though. The first especially is ridiculously rushed, to the point it feels like edited highlights of two episodes (which is entirely likely). There’s absolutely no rhythm to the episode, with characters arbitrarily flitting from scene to scene. Ace gets captured three times in 20 odd minutes. She has an emotional heart to heart to with a character who gets absolutely no introduction or name. It’s incredibly hard to follow.


Gaudy… garish… silly… ugly… (cheap)… 80s music video…

God, that really sums up the Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor Who, doesn’t it? I mean, you might end up with a halfway decent story or part of a story here and there, but then you dreck like “The Twin Dilemma,” “The Happiness Patrol,” and “Parardise Towers” dragging everything down.

I remember being horribly disappointed by the sixth and seventh Doctor eras, and, at the time, I wasn’t sure whether it was actually bad, or if I had just outgrown Doctor Who, as I was in my late teens by the time I saw those episodes.

But now, I can pretty definitively say it’s the former. The sixth and seventh Doctors are definitely Doctor Who’s answer to Star Trek’s third season. You can definitely see the budget cuts. The special effects are ropy, the cinematography and direction are amateurish, and stories are generally some combination of banal, uninspired, and pretentious. Baker and McCoy do the best they can with what they’re given, and it’s kind of a miracle that I actually like both of their Doctors, but they’re still polishing turds.

It’s really amazing how much better 70s Doctor Who looks than 80s Doctor Who, and how much they were able to do with limited resources. The third Doctor was taking cues from Quatermass, while the fourth Doctor was, at least in the beginning, going all-out Hammer Horror, which gave thse stories a certain gravity that the later period lacked.


McCoy was the first Doctor I watched and I really liked him - his era and repeats of the Pertwee era were my first real exposure to the show. I must have liked it enough to keep watching, even if in retrospect McCoy’s era was uneven at best.

(Confession time: as a kid, I found the Kandyman genuinely scary.)


My experience is quite similar, I actually stopped watching the show at some point during Baker’s run. I came back for the final McCoy series which was much better…and then they cancelled it.


It’s always shocking to compare Spearhead from Space to other episodes of classic Who, even in Pertweee’s era. Being shot on film and on location gives the serial a level of gravitas that is frequently lacking from the show. (Also, no green screen!)


It’s the kind of scifi that the UK is known for. We do space operas and fantasy too, but the small scale, low key, darker stuff is where UK writers have made the most impression.


I have a great love for most of that first year of Pertwee stories, for that exact reason. Each one is a great balance between the sweeping Earth is in jeopardy story with a smaller, horror vibe.


If you ever watch some old, British scifi movies, you can see the crossover with what Dr Who was doing at around the same time.

Something like ‘The Earth Dies Screaming’ is a lot like a Dr Who story where the Doctor never shows up.