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Doctor Who Thread of Space and Time: Discussing Twice Upon A Time (SPOILERS)


#2230

That’s true. Sometimes I don’t think they take advantage of such timey wimey stuff as earlier incarnations of characters anywhere near as much as they should (or I guess almost at all).


#2231

I’d be fun if they had Missy regenerate into Delgado.


#2232

I think it’s generally to the detriment of storytelling when writers try to put too much motivation into villains like The Master. You sort of reach a point where the writers start to overthink the whole thing and you end up with unsatisfying stories.

Picking apart villains looking for some kind of motivation is kind of pointless because villains are villains because they’re assholes. The Master, Palpatine, Dr. Doom, Blofeld, Voldemort, Gacy, Hitler, Stalin, Tr… you get the idea.


#2233

I don’t know, I think some of those villains have interesting and developed motivations beyond just being A Bad Guy.


#2234

‘The Proposition’ is a good film, that gives it’s villain (played by Ray Winstone) a lot of extra screen time and gets more into his motivations than usual.

As a result he becomes a more rounded human being and less of a bad guy, in the eyes of the audience.

But I felt that it hurt the film, it split your sympathies in the wrong way. It was well written and acted but when your protagonist is trying to keep himself and his younger brother alive by going after his older brother you’ve already got enough moral complexity to fill a movie.


#2235

I can see how that could be the case.

Going back to the example of Magneto, I think he’s always brought up as a well-developed villain because he strikes the right balance. You get a strong sense of why his experiences and relationships would make him act the way he does, but it never tips so far that you really feel like he’s doing the right thing and has a better approach than Xavier. He’s a villain, but someone who acts in a believable and (to some degree) rational way, with clear ideological goals that make more sense than simple world domination.


#2236

That’s the big villain problem; why?

It doesn’t need a whole lot of explanation, just enough, and you have to believe it. If the villain’s goals don’t make sense to them (they can be irrational, if the villain is irrational) then it will weaken the story.


#2237


#2238

If the Master “needed” a gender change for that reason, it implies that Timelords don’t have same-sex sexual attraction. Which I find a bit of a depressing message :frowning:


#2239

Oh I agree, that’s why I mentioned Pete and Carl from the Libertines who have spoke of their strong sexual attraction despite being straight. Bit yes, of course they could simply have homosexual or polysexual incarnations to explore those things but a narratively strong way from a storytelling point of view in this situstion is to explore that as a twist on standard romance, but any exploration would be fun if done right.


#2240

Episode titles and synopses for Season 10 revealed by the Radio Times. Mild spoilers, obviously.

[quote][spoiler]1 - The Pilot
(Written by Steven Moffat and Directed by Lawrence Gough)
"What’s the one thing you never see when you look at your reflection?"
Meet Bill Potts. She works at St Luke’s University, serving chips to students, and nothing ever, ever happens. Then, one day, she finds there’s another world beneath the one she knows. A familiar face in a pool of water, and a love that is over before it can begin, will change her life for ever - because this is the day Bill meets the Doctor.

2 - Smile
(Written by Frank Cottrell-Boyce and Directed by Lawrence Gough; Guest Star: Ralph Little)
"Between here and my office, before the kettle boils, is everything that ever happened, or ever will. Make your choice."
In the far future, at the edge of the galaxy, there is a gleaming, perfect city. This brand-new human settlement is said to hold the secret of human happiness - but the only smiles the Doctor and Bill can find are on a pile of grinning skulls. Something is alive in the walls, and the Emojibots are watching from the shadows, as the Doctor and Bill try to unravel a terrifying mystery…

3 - Thin Ice
(Written by Sarah Dollard and Directed by Bill Anderson)
"So the Tardis has dresses and likes a bit of trouble? I think I’m low-key in love with her."
In Regency England, beneath the Frozen Tames, something is stirring. The Doctor and Bill arrive at the last of the great frost fairs and find themselves investigating a string of impossible disappearances - people have been vanishing on the ice! Bill is about to discover that the past is more like her world than she expected, and that not all monsters come from outer space.

4 - Knock Knock
(Written by Mike Bartlett and DIrected by Bill Anderson; Guest Star: David Suchet)
“Did you hear the trees creaking outside when we arrived?” “Yeah. It was the wind.” "There wasn’t any wind."
Bill is moving in with some friends and they’ve found the perfect house! So what if it’s strangely cheap to rent, and the landlord is a little creepy? The wind blows, the floorboards creak and the Doctor thinks something is very wrong. What lurks in the strange tower at the heart of the building - and why can’t they find any way to enter it…?

5 - Oxygen
(Written by Jamie Mathieson and Directed by Charles Palmer)
"You only see the true face of the universe when it’s asking you for help."
The Doctor, Bill and Nardole answer a distress call in deep space, and find themselves trapped on board space station Chasm Forge. All but four of the crew have been murdered - and the dead are still walking! In a future where oxygen is sold by the breath, and space suits are valued more highly than their occupants, the Tardis crew battle for survival against the darkest evil of all.

6 - Extremis
(Written by Steven Moffat and Directed by Daniel Nettheim; Guest Star: Michelle Gomez)
"They read The Veritas - and chose hell."
In the Haereticum (the Vatican’s secret library of blasphemy) there is an ancient book known only as The Veritas. Throughout history, anyone who has ever read it has immediately taken their own life. Now a new translation is online, and the danger is spreading. The Vatican appeals to the Doctor. Will he read The Veritas? But can even the Doctor survive the ultimate truth?

7 - The Pyramid at the End of the World
(Written by Peter Harness and Steven Moffat and Directed by Daniel Nettheim)
"Fear is inefficient. We must be loved."
A 5,000-year-old pyramid stands at the centre of a war zone, where the Chinese, Russian and American armies are about to clash. There are many problems with that, but the one that intrigues the Doctor is this: there wasn’t a pyramid there yesterday. The Doctor, Bill and Nardole face and alien invasion unlike any other - before conquest can begin, these aliens need the consent of the human race.

8 - The Lie of the Land
(Written by Toby Whithouse and Directed by Wayne Yip)
“I’m sorry, Bill, I really wanted to make you see!” "Oh my God, this is real. You’re really doing this!"
The world is gripped by a mass delusion and only Bill Potts can see the truth. When even the Doctor is fighting on the wrong side, it’s up to Bill to convince the Time Lord that humanity is in deadly danger. And if she can’t do that, she may just have to kill her best friend.

9 - The Empress of Mars
(Written by Mark Gatiss and Directed by Wayne Yip)
"It’s a simple choice, Iraxxa. The oldest one in the book. We must live together. Or die together."
The Doctor, Bill and Nardole arrive on Mars and find themselves in an impossible conflict between Ice Warriors… and Victorian soldiers. As the Martian hive awakes around them, the Doctor faces a unique dilemma - this time the humans, not the Ice Warriors are the invaders. When Earth is invading Mars, whose side is he on?

10 - The Eaters of Light
(Written by Rona Munro and Directed by Charles Palmer)
"Now you have a choice. You can all keep on slaughtering each other till there’s no one left standing, or you can grow the hell up!"
A long time ago, the Roman legion of the ninth vanished into the mists of Scotland. Bill has a theory about what happened, and the Doctor has a time machine. But when they arrive in ancient Aberdeenshire, what they find is a far greater threat than any army. In a cairn, on a hillside, is a doorway leading to the end of the world.

11 - World Enough and Time
(Written by Steven Moffat and Directed by Rachel Talalay; Guest Star: Michelle Gomez)
"My name’s Doctor Who."
Friendship drives the Doctor into the rashest decision of his life. Trapped on a giant spaceship, caught in the event horizon of a black hole, he witnesses the death of someone he is pledged to protect. Is there any way he can redeem his mistake? Are events already out of control? For once, time is the Time Lord’s enemy…

12 - The Doctor Falls
(Written by Steven Moffat and Directed by Rachel Talalay; Guest Star: Michelle Gomez)
"Without hope, without witness, without reward."
The Mondasian Cybermen are on the rise. It’s time for the Doctor’s final battle…[/spoiler][/quote]


#2241

A nice interview with Capaldi that reminds me what a great take on the Doctor he has, even if it doesn’t always quite come through in the show itself.

[quote]Now that you’ve had nearly three seasons to play the character, what do you think distinguished your version of the Doctor?

First and foremost, he’s not human. So I think he struggles to create a version of himself that humans find easy to be around. He’s always trying to save the universe, so if he upsets someone, that has to come with the territory. But then later on, he probably gets a bit worried and wishes he could go back and say, “I’m sorry I upset you.” I like when he’s strange.

Your country and mine have seen a lot of upheaval in recent months. What do you think “Doctor Who” offers viewers at a time like this?

It offers hope for the power of kindness and intelligence and care. The Doctor is someone who sees the big picture, and has seen how the human race is — he loves the human race, because he sees its cruelty, but also astonishing kindness and heroism. The Doctor is a beacon of goodness, and that’s why he can survive all these different permutations — an abrasive character or an avuncular character or a strange character. Because at heart, he is, in essence, a good creature. I think we need heroes like that.[/quote]
Some interesting little teases in there about the upcoming regeneration, too.


#2242

Yeah, this sounds about right for me:


#2243

I think it should have read “How can smug, stale Doctor Who get back to its smug, stale glory days?”


#2244

To be fair, that was just smug and stale. The glory days came right after that. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#2245

Ahh…Good old Guardian - which will start the Doctor Who series blog up again on Saturday night - riding the coat tails of the new series to generate clicks.


#2246

I really enjoy Doctor Who, can’t wait for the new series.


#2247

No, the glory days started a year prior. Third Doctor/Liz forever!


#2248

Yes! Never-ending stories that are all basically the same! The real glory days.


#2249

Spearhead From Space, Doctor Who and the Silurians, The Ambassadors (BOOM!) of Death, and Inferno are all the same?