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Doctor Who Thread of Space and Time: Discussing Twice Upon A Time (SPOILERS)


I have read another one of Lance Parkin’s books (The Infinity Doctors) which was a lot of fun. It is entirely unspecific about which Doctor it is about or where it sits in the canon (if at all). It could be an elseworlds thing or a story about the Doctor before he left Gallifrey.


That also sounds good and I haven’t heard of it!


I absolutely love the Infinity Doctors such a great read, that mashes up a lot of Gallifrey stories, without it reading like the fan-wank that most would (and do)

I thought the BBC put it up online, but I can’t find it.


All I’ll say about this spoiler info:

Didn’t Big Finish get there first with their Two Masters trilogy?


Yup … Cold Fusion lays some of the groundwork for what was seen in The Infinity Doctors (which, I agree, was great - a story where you don’t know which Doctor it’s about, and it doesn’t matter, because it’s still The Doctor)


It’s also kind of what they did with the Baker/Davison regeneration in Logopolis, isn’t it?


But, what… gender do they sound like?


That was really, really good.


Lance Parkin was one of the best interregnum Who writers. Gallifrey Chronicles was a lovely conclusion to the 8DA. I’ve still got Father Time hanging around unread, I was saving it til last of my Who novels and never got around to it (and others).

I was going to try and remain unspoiled on the news, but then Twitter intervened. Not even an errant tweet, but the list of trending topics that shows up on the mobile app when you use the search tab gave it away (with a handy explanation underneath even). Grr.

Anyway it’s quite a cool idea, that takes advantage of the show’s nature and the availability of the actors. There’s no real reason the Doctor would only ever run into the Master linearly, so having an earlier version pop back up makes sense. I think Big Finish have done it by using Geoffrey Beevers’ iteration alongside McCoy and others. I suspect if Delgado hadn’t died in the 70s, JNT would have done a Master team-up episode, possibly even within the 5 Doctors.


Sort of. In Logopolis you get the mysteriois guy in white lurking about ominously, waving way too much. He’s a projection of the Doctor’s future self or something though (rather than properly the Doctor) and tells the 4th Doctor this fairly early on. But he does use the TARDIS off-screen, to bring Nyssa in.

There’s a similar sort of thing with Cho-Je in Planet of Spiders, though again, it’s a bit ill-defined and he’s dismissed as being a future projection rather his actual future self crossing his own timeline.


Good point. I should go read Just War again. I remember loving that when it came out, but I’m not sure I’ve I read it in quite a few years. I wonder if i have it as an ebook?


I didn’t really focus on the episode titles until you said that, but now that I have, episode 8 being titled (spoiler-texting speculation) “The Lie Of The Land” makes me wonder… could they be doing the Land Of Fiction? Always felt the new series could work wonders with that premise, and I’d have loved to have seen what could be done with it in the hands of writers like Moffat or (even more on the nose) Gaiman. Not sure Whithouse would hit the same highs I imagine those two reaching, though.

Oddly, I’ve got Gallifrey Chronicles sitting unread on my bookshelf but have read and enjoyed Father Time! I’ve just got back into my on-again/off-again journey through my cherry-picked collection of NAs/8DAs - I picked up a bunch of the ones I had previously been unable to get a couple of years back and decided to start at the beginning. The journey is quick when the book is either new to me or an old favourite (at my current point in the run, that’s been anything by Cornell, Orman or Aaronovitch) but grinds to a halt now and again when I hit an uninspiring book. Months and months of Andy Lane’s Original Sin (which is actually ok but felt a bit of a chore second time around) have finally come to an end and now I have the joyful Also People as my reward (sticky toffee pudding for finishing my vegetables)… :slight_smile:


Cold Fusion was dramatised by Big Finish a few months ago. Highly recommended.


With Missy returning this series (as seen in the most recent trailer), Moffat was asked in the most recent Doctor Who Magazine about the relationship between the Doctor and the Master. His take is interesting and explains why he’s made some of the choices he has with the character.

[quote]’‘Well, I wasn’t immediately interested in using that character,’’ points out Steven ''and I know Russell T. Davies wasn’t either, at the very beginning, because what does the Master want? Does he want to constantly pick a fight with the person who can always beat him? Why would you do that? If you’re really concerned about dominion and power, that’s what you wouldn’t do. You’d make sure it was the Doctor’s day off before you invaded Earth. I love, love, love Logopolis [the fourth Doctor’s final serial in 1981], but I don’t understand why Anthony Ainley [who played the Master in the 1980’s] broadcasts to the universe, “peoples of the universe, please attend carefully-!” what’s he gonna do? he’s gonna take over, then what? he’s just going to end up building roads, and a transportation system, and sorting out sewage.

The version of the Master that keeps running up like Ernst Stavro Blofeld with another crap plan, in a giant volcano, doesn’t mean anything to me. So I had to answer the question, what does the Master want? I don’t believe that the Master wants to conquer the universe, because that doesn’t mean anything and the admin would be awful so what is he up to? In the 1970’s, every scene between Jon Pertwee and Roger Delgado who was astonishing casting! was brilliant, and it’s brilliant because they play it as friends, even when they’re trying to kill each other. The Master wants to be friends with the Doctor. Finding that key was useful for me.

I think it’s the story of a tormented friendship, right from the very beginning. The Doctor has a friend, a childhood friend who is a carnivore, while he is a vegetarian, and he’s probably closer to that person than he is to any of the other people he meets. I found that was a story I could write.’’[/quote]


A quick glance at the history books will show him a whole range of dictators, despots and tyrants who were absolute rulers and carried on doing that for as long as they were able.

So clearly it appeals to certain mindset.


I get the impression Moffat is thinking more in terms of meaning from a story/audience-satisfaction point of view.

Those real-life dictators just have no interest in creating a gripping narrative!


So all the megalomaniac villains in fiction have just been wasting our time? :wink:


I don’t think it’s really that hard a concept to grasp.

There’s a reason why some villains are more interesting than others; there’s a reason why Magneto is celebrated as being a wonderfully complex villain and Darkseid isn’t really.


The ones without interesting motivation, yes!


Which would be that their old school friend don’t like them enough?