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Doctor Who Thread of Space and Time: Discussing S11E06 Demons of the Punjab


#4995

It’s as if Lorcan has no concept of what the Conditional is!

(By the way, teaching the English conditional forms to ESL students is a real motherfucker because you English people are too lazy to make the forms discernable from the past tense.)

Concerning River: The idea of a time-travelling relationship in which you meet again and again but the stages are all mixed up was a very good one, and in paper River is a good character, too. But something in the executiom, in the meeting of character and actor - and Kingston is definitely a much better actor than Barrowman - didn’t work and she became kind of obnxious, at least to me. Which is a shame, but it sometimes happens that a character doesn’t work for everybody (on balance, I never had a problem with Clara).


#4996

Were you christened on a Tuesday?


#4997

I think I remember reading that Moffat’s intent with the character in the “Silence in the Library” two-parter is that she was supposed to be a one-and-done character who was from the Doctor’s far future who had known through a number of incarnations, and not just what amounts to his next companion.

In SitL, it is strongly implied that she was his wife, though it was, by design, ambiguous. The idea being that, since she is from his future, when she realizes that this is the first time he has seen her, that this is the last time she will see him.

She is a problematic recurring character because she is obviously set up for a long-term game plan, but the character is tied to a single actress who is only going to get older, while the character will get younger with each appearance. This could have easily been side-stepped by making her a fellow Time Lord and have her regenerate every few years, though in reverse, and they could keep the character running for years through multiple Doctors. Mofatt sort of did that, but scuppered it as soon as he introduced the concept.


#4998

I imagine that, as with a lot of Moffat’s long-running mysteries, he had some vague ideas but no real plan and sort of muddled through it all. Which is why so much of it doesn’t fit or doesn’t come together brilliantly.


#4999

#5000

Yep. And bullied every day after by ‘heroes.’


#5001

As I understand it, the Amy and River connection wasn’t planned when creating Amy, but sprang from the unintended water connection. I might be misremembering that, but it would explain why River would have to be lying while talking only to herself in some of her earlier episodes for it to all make sense.


#5002

Can you imagine how excited Moffet would have been when he figured out to make River Amy’s daughter? He’d have been insufferably smug for days afterwards.


#5003

And he has a pretty strong baseline for insufferably smug to begin with!


#5004

He’s said he called Amy “Pond” with the possibility of making her River’s mother, but didn’t know if he would follow through with it:

When I introduced Amy Pond, it was with the possibility that this could be the mother of River, and that’s why I put the “Pond” in…There was no guarantee that Karen [Gillan] was going to stay or that Alex [Kingston] would come back. It was just a possibility that I kept alive.


#5005

I’m not sure if it’s been posted here, but the BBC are putting out the sound recordings of some of the lost episodes, with added linking narration, etc:

https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Doctor-Who-The-Lost-TV-Episodes-Collection-One-1964-1965-Audiobook/178753524X

Five thrilling soundtrack adventures from the early days of Doctor Who, featuring serials lost from the TV archive.

The pictures may be lost, but each of these stories survives as a soundtrack recording. Remastered, and with additional linking narration, they can be enjoyed once more.

In ‘Marco Polo’, the famous Venetian explorer plans to give the TARDIS to Kublai Khan - unless the Doctor and his companions can stop him.

In ‘The Reign of Terror’, the Doctor, Ian, Barbara and Susan are caught up in the bloody events of the French Revolution.

In ‘The Crusade’, the TARDIS materialises in the middle of a 12th-century holy war between Richard the Lionheart and the Saracen Saladin.

In ‘Galaxy 4’, the Doctor, Steven and Vicki meet the Drahvins and the Rills on a planet just one day away from destruction.

In ‘The Myth Makers’, the Doctor is hailed as the Greek god Zeus and forced to help defeat the Trojans. He forms the idea of a wooden horse…

Special linking narration is provided by William Russell, Carole Ann Ford and Peter Purves, who also recall their time making the original episodes in a series of bonus interviews.


#5006

This could be a problem if they build up a lot of momentum and goodwill this season, then leave folk hanging for 2 years.
Kids will soon forget and move onto something else, there’s a lot of competition for people’s time these days.


#5007

I was talking to a friend last night who’s mostly seen the new Doctor Who, from Ecclestone onwards.

He was just old enough to watch the last few McCoy ones, and he’s rewatched some recently, now he’s thinking of going further back.

I suggested the Tom Baker era, he’s aware of things like UNIT of course but what he’s seen of the Pertwee stuff hasn’t gelled with him, so Baker seems like a good point to aim for.


#5008

In terms of the classic series, it does feel like Tom Baker is the major cultural touchstone (putting personal biases aside).

After McCoy (which I was the right age for as a kid) and Pertwee (who had a lot of reruns when I was young) Baker is probably where I’d go next.


#5009

There is a lot of Baker, and a number of approaches. From the beginning or pick and mix?

I might start with City of Death and Robots of Death (City is the one that Davis showed a few key people to show the power of the show, if i recall correctly. Robots of Death kinda fun).

I’d then go for The Horns of Nimon. Just to prepare them.


#5010

I think he’s likely to be looking at “the greatest hits”, I did warn him the quality goes up and down, but he and I don’t always agree on good/bad anyway.


#5011

If you delve into the detail of the article it says they are starting filming 2 months later than they did for this series and they could possibly use a smaller window anyway as they have all the crew and Tardis set in place. So the ‘gap year’ mentioned is technically correct if they delay to January 2020, which they may not, but it’s not suggesting 2 years.


#5012

It’s all rumour at this point anyway, we won’t be sure of anything until they announce a schedule.


#5013

I liked that one, but it was definitely one of the scarier episodes I can recall. It’s definitely going to give some kids nightmares.

Two episodes in a row without any alien involvement too.

So is Chris Noth coming back later in the season?

I was surprised they actually mentioned Trump by name; I don’t think they’ve ever used real modern-day politicians before.


#5014

I thought it was ok, and I thought they judged the scariness about right - a couple of eye-covering moments in our house but nothing too disturbing.

It did feel like it lacked resolution though - some kind of scene to show the spiders definitively being dealt with. It suddenly jumped from the big plan to all the post-story stuff.