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Doctor Who Thread of Space and Time: Discussing S11E02 The Ghost Monument


#4695

She’s a talented lady. I remember her as a vocalist for house hits in the early 90s. Some serious diva pipes on this woman:

I think as usual with Doctor Who it wasn’t the script that may have telegraphed her fate but the publicity, you know there are 3 companions and you can work out the rest. I still wish there was a way I could have seen that Cybermen story last year without knowing they’d be in the series.

Pointless talented sibling facts on the cast members they showed coming up. Suzanne Packer is the sister of Olympic athlete Colin Jackson who held the 110m hurdles world record for 12 years. Ben Bailey-Smith is the brother of Zadie Smith the author.


#4696

I actually really liked the way they twisted the meaning of that initial YouTube video, and I didn’t get the double-meaning of the title until you pointed it out. So yes, clever.


#4697

Same here, liked the twist with the video, didn’t think about the title until Lorcan pointed it out.


#4698

We’re talking about Dr Who and last night’s episode at work.

Most people liked it, and their kids definitely did.

But opinion is divided on their favourite (and least favourite) Doctors. I thought more people liked Tennant.

EDIT:
Someone in the office worked on the show, Tennant is a great bloke according to him, but he’s actually not a fan of his work as The Doctor.


#4699

The cycles that Dr. Who fans go through regarding Doctors and creative eras is always intersting. Even beyond the diagram showing the “I hate the new one” through “Don’t get rid of this one, they’re my favourite!”. Like, at the time I remember a lot of people being down on RTD and Tennant and very much looking forward to Moffat and Smith, only for many of the same people to wax for the glory days of RTD and Tennant a few years later.

So basically, we’re on the cusp of the Moffat/Smith/Capaldi nostalgia craze, and as such Tennant has faded a bit more from memory.


#4700

Didn’t love it. Didn’t hate it. It was… all kinds of okay. The story and the monster felt a lot an like average Davies-era episode. I think it’s good that they’re probably getting away from Moffat’s fantastiy/fairy tale impulses, but I would hope for a fresher take on the concept.

After all of the sturm und drang over having a female Doctor, Whittaker felt like just another Doctor. The gender swap felt neither natural or unnatural, or particularly revolutionary, but simply a case of moving on to the next Doctor.

One thing that did annoy me was Graham disbelieving in aliens. I would think that, after numerous high profile alien invasions, the Earth being stolen, the Cybermen grave-robbing, the 456 trying to snatch the children of Earth (wouldn’t Ryan be the right age to have been one of those kids?), the Daleks invading… I don’t think anyone on Earth, or at least England, would still be going all Scully in the face of a potential alien visitation.


#4701

Haven’t some of the alien invasions been retconned out of earth’s history?

But even if they have, it was a character trait that didn’t go anywhere. He just voiced some disbelief and then got on with the rest of the Scooby Gang and their investigation anyway.


#4702

Some people still dont think we landed on the Moon. People are good at ignoring overwhelming evidence.


#4703

The first episode of the new series of Doctor Who starring newcomer Jodie Whittaker drew the programme’s biggest launch viewing figures in 10 years.

Whittaker also managed to tempt more viewers than predecessors Peter Capaldi, Matt Smith and David Tennant did for their debuts.

An average of 8.2 million tuned in to watch the actor as the first female Doctor, with a peak of 9 million and an audience share of 40.1%.

This makes the broadcast the most-watched, according to overnight ratings, since the 2008 series opened with 8.4 million.

Capaldi, whose first series as the Time Lord began in 2014, drew 6.8 million viewers for his debut. Smith launched with 7.7 million viewers in 2010, while Tennant debuted with 8 million for his first episode as the Doctor in 2006. However, Whittaker was shy of reaching Christopher Eccleston’s debut as the Doctor when the series was revived in 2005. Eccleston was watched by an average of 9.9 million for his premiere.


#4704

To be fair, the showrunners, both immediate past and present, have been very much sticking to the line that this IS just another regeneration for the character. Moffat seeded a couple of swapped gender regenerations in his last couple of years, emphasising that this was nothing unusual. The fuss was largely external, so how they handled it was pretty much as expected I think.

Part of me really wants to see a discussion of Gallifreyan regeneration psychology at some point … but the rest of me acknowledges that that’s pretty geeky and not really needed :slight_smile:

(The New Adventures took regeneration psychology to one extreme, with the idea that the Seventh Doctor’s persona formed in response to the problems with the Sixth, and effectively murdered him from within by manipulating events to trigger an earlier than needed regeneration … but that’s a wee bit contrived perhaps :wink: )


#4705

What does this “peak” figure mean? Is it that 9 million watched part of it but only 8.2 million watched the whole thing?

If so, I would say those 800,000 people who watched a bit and then turned off are more important than the 8m who watched the whole thing. Getting 9m people to give it a go means you’ve got good marketing. Having one in ten of those then turn it off means you’ve got a product that didn’t meet the hype.


#4706

If the current Doctor meets Susan, will Susan still call her “Grandfather”? :thinking:


#4707

Not always, as sometimes people tune in part of the way through, especially with an episode like this one which doesn’t start on the hour.


#4708

Ok, that’s a fair point. And presumably the programme then hooked at least some of them enough to stay with it, which is great.


#4709

Depends on the Tardis telepathic and translation circuits, mebbe?


#4710

Don’t worry, Susan will never return.


#4711

I liked the line in this episode that briefly addressed that - the one about feeling like you’re going to die, then being born, but not being fully-formed yet.


#4712

A few years ago it looked like the BBC had conquered TV. They seemed to have some of the most popular TV shows on the planet - Top Gear, Dr Who, Downtown Abbey - and it looked like they were going to be elevated to a new level, a global player who could compete with the big boys of media. Instead I think they’ve screwed up all the shows.

Maybe it was the bigotry of low expectations, but I can’t understand any of the praise for the new episode. It felt like a community theater production of Dr Who. It was a simple and uninspiring story. Stupid plot. Most of the time filled with needless exposition. It looked terribly cheap. Ridiculous time filling side plots to pretend to keep things moving. Hackey dialogue and cringey character moments. A terrible alien in a latex mask who had no character to him at all. Ropey FX. Huge plot holes and leaps in logic. Banal companions (including a police officer who fails to report a train accident and then 3 murders because she might get embarrassed). A needless death, written and acted badly like they just needed to insert a death here for no real reason (she was the best companion too). Even the music was about as dull as you can imagine. As for the new Dr, she felt like she was trying to do impersonations of 3-4 previous Doctors, but doing them badly.

Take away the Dr Who label and this is universally dismissed as crap that you only would watch if you had nothing else to do.


#4713

That was ITV I think, although it may have been shown in the US on BBC America.


#4714

It was an ITV series that aired on PBS here in the US.