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Diversity in Modern Society


#3634

Sure, and I think all of that should be considered, too. Neeson would be much further down on my list of outrage than someone like Spacey, Singer, or Mel Gibson.


#3635

#3636


#3637

Leaving aside that much of this thread is people expressing outrage over others expressing outrage, it’s a blanket minimizing and dismissal of the viewpoints of a range of commenters, some of whom are trolls, some of whom are activists, some of whom are speaking from direct experiences with racism/sexism/homophobia, etc., and some of whom are experts in their fields (which often directly relate to the behavior they are expressing outrage about). That doesn’t mean that any of those people are always right or that their view is a consensus, but it seems a bit too easy to characterize it all as unjustified or uncritical “outrage”.


#3638

It’s not outrage. It’s barely irritation. If something is posted here to be offered for discussion then it sometimes will be discussed, and not always in agreement. If you want to go unchallenged then there’s all kinds of circlejerking corners of the internet.

Sometimes opinions should be dismissed because they’re ridiculous. We’ve reached a point where all opinions, not matter how unfounded, petty, childish or removed from reality somehow need to be heard, but we’d be better as a society if we could suggest more people ‘catch themselves on’ and ‘wise up’.


#3639

Opinion expressed: “Superman IV: The Quest for Peace is the greatest film ever made.”

What I’m criticizing: “Only morons could possibly think that.”

What I’m arguing for: “I don’t agree. The acting, effects, and script are terrible.”

But I’m just expressing outrage over the outrage others are expressing over the outrage other people are expressing and I’m not requiring anyone to agree with me.


#3640

It’s also not necessary to have a defined opinion on other people’s lives whether expressed in private or public. Taking care in the way you personally live your life and the actions you take is probably more important to you and to those in your life than what you think about others.

Sometimes you can just say I don’t really know how I feel about it and I don’t really care. It’s not my story. Actually it seems like lots of times that’s a wise course. The temptation to shoot out with an opinion seems safe enough but then you get into the rumble of the “discussion” and find yourself defending a position you hadn’t really thought deeply about and aren’t sure you really want to defend.

It’s like our knee jerk reaction to people asking questions. You don’t have to answer questions. It’s the best approach in a lot of cases. If someone asks you a question, you’re never under any obligation to answer it. And you don’t have to have an opinion about everything. Just keep that in mind.

Now someone should reply with “well, that’s just your opinion.”


#3641

These are excellent points, and I’ve definitely found myself in the position you describe. We also all have our own biases that are going to inform our positions. Someone with no investment in the outcome might look at everything going on with the Virginia Democrats right now (Governor and AG both admitting to having worn blackface, Lt. Gov accused by two women of sexual assault) and not hesitate to say they should all resign. A Democrat in that state might argue that doing so would hand the state government over to the Republicans who (in their view) are going to enact laws that will harm a far greater number of African-Americans and women, and they both might think they’re holding an objective position.


#3642

So you mean things aren’t just black and white? :smile:


#3643

#3644

Some things are, some things aren’t.


#3645

Either you’re ok with people having made mistakes like black face in their youth or you’re not. Anyone who went after that college kid a few weeks ago and yet thinks it’s ok for these politicians to do the same thing because they’re Democrats has a real problem with how they think. Their soul has become lost in the political battle.


#3646

Good example of exactly what I was talking about. The reasons it’s not as simple and comparable are the difference in time (30 to 40 years ago versus now) and the difference in responsibility - saying a kid should be suspended or expelled, or even just that they should be criticized, is not the same as being removed from a position of authority. We can also add a high school student versus someone a decade older in medical school. It’s apples and oranges.

And for the record I do think all three should resign, regardless of politics.


#3647

You don’t think a sincere apology should be sufficient?


#3649

In the case of the students, sure. The Virginia politicians? No. They knew they did this, they should have known by now that it was wrong, and an “I got caught” apology is pretty meaningless.


#3650

For the governor though, is there no path for redemption? Is there not a way for personal growth since this happened?


#3651

As a person, sure there is. But I think continuing to serve as governor should be off the table, as there’s a breach of trust. I’d be fine with his running again with this info publicly known, and if he wins, then so be it.


#3652

I did and said a lot of stupid crap when I was in high school and college that makes me cringe now.

I’d hate to think some AIDS jokes I told when I was in junior high or gross-out heavy metal lyrics I wrote when I was in high school and college have put some kind of permanent stain on me that can never be removed.


#3653

If you want to avoid that, a good way to do it is to acknowledge it up front. A bad way to do it is to ignore it, admit it when it comes out, then deny it a day later, then hold a press conference in which you admit to a different, but similar thing while also acting like it’s not a big deal, then doing an interview where you call AIDS “the flu” while feigning sympathy.*

*Swap “AIDS” for “slaves” and “the flu” for “indentured servants” and the Virginia governor has done exactly these things.


#3654

I know of only one person who, while he was in his early twenties, clearly had an eye on his future and was very careful not to be caught up in anything untoward at Oxford, while a member of the Bullingdon Club. It can only be one person, right? Of course it can, I give you…

David ‘the Geezer’ Cameron

The way things are going he could be the trend setter for politicians to come. Or… Some very, very thorough cleaning on social media is going to be it. Come to think of it, I could see tech companies offering ‘cleaner’ services the way it’s going.