With most of the cases that have received a lot of publicity, there are multiple accusers. Some cases have received some attention but people haven’t accepted the idea that this could be a “bad guy”, as in the case of Morgan Freeman, where there were multiple reports of unwanted touching and sexual harassment, but in the end that wasn’t enough to have much of an impact because he didn’t actually sexually attack anyone, and well, because it’s Morgan Freeman.
Probably, yeah. It did take a lot of time, though. And with Allen, it’s still a very difficult matter indeed - I tried to make up my mind about his case but even after having read quite a bit about this, I felt unsure about his guilt or innocence.
Woody Allen is a tougher case - like Michael Jackson’s - in that their other children obviously have made accusations of child abuse against Mia Farrow. Now, not everyone in the family is without an interest on one side or the other, it’s hard to see how Moses benefits from his claims that Farrow physically and psychologically abused them.
Obviously, it seems that Woody Allen and Mia Farrow were both terrible parents even if he didn’t molest his daughter or she didn’t abuse and terrorize them all.
Well, out of blue, at this second, I could name Luc Besson. Also, I would point that Brett Ratner wasn’t harassing anyone (sexually) as people pointed out. His remarks were more homophobic, which isn’t quite the same. But I do believe MeToo turned into witchhunt, where everyone can say you were acting inappropriate and that can land you in deep troubles (regardless you are guilty or not). Besides, Asia Argento, who started MeToo, sexually abused the kid. But, that’s Hollywood.
In comics, I didn’t see much outcry from comic pros when Eric J Esquivel (writer of Border Town that got canceled after four issues) turned to be predator and rapist. He also is Bond fan, purple haired feminist and Trump criticizer. I bet if the dude is some conservative, social networks would be in heat.
I think he worn himself out a some time ago. I don’t think he could offer something crisp and new anymore.
Esquivel’s comic was cancelled after the abuse allegations came out and all his collaborators bailed on him, as you note in your very post. That sounds like a fair amount of outcry from his peers to me.
You mean apart from raping Natasha Henstridge? And attacking several other women, including Olivia Munn? That’s what you give as an example for this being a witchhunt? Wow.
Luc Besson is the same. He has been accused of sexual misconduct, including rape, by nine different women.
Oh, wait, you’re talking about Kevin Hart when you said Brett Ratner, aren’t you? Okay, yeah, maybe that was an overreaction. But he’s only lost the Oscars gig, this isn’t going to have any further impact on his carreer. Yes, I do think there’s an online hate culture that latches on to people like him, and I don’t care much for that. I will agree with you on that. But it has nothing to do with metoo - like you said, his remarks were homophonic in nature. It’s a different debate.
But I do believe MeToo turned into witchhunt, where everyone can say you were acting inappropriate and that can land you in deep troubles (regardless you are guilty or not).
And yet you haven’t given a convincing example of it. It’s just a gut feeling you have, apparently, but the truth is that the men who have been suffering under this are all under great suspicion of actual sexual attacks.
I hadn’t heard about this before, but apparently when this came out about him, the artist and colourist left his comics series for Vertigo immediately and DC has by now fired him from Nightwing and cancelled that Vertigo series. His carreer in comics is over forever. So it seems like everything that you’ve complained about with other people has happened to him, only in his case you thought it wasn’t because of your own political bias. Correct?
In much the same way, you seem to imply that Argento’s abuse of Bennett didn’t get a reaction when the opposite is the case. There was widespread reporting on it (starting with, and let’s remember that, the liberal rag The New York Times) and it has probably destroyed what carreer she has left (she was dropped from the Italian version of The Voice).
So, once again: Mostly I see people who got away with sexual attacks for decades finally being called out. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are examples of people who are innocent being caught up in this, but you have failed to give one. Your own antipathy against the metoo-movement seems to be based on political bias, or so the false examples you tried to give for left-wingers getting away with the same kind of behaviour seems to imply.
Eric J Esquivel, I thought he is innocent, really I did. Because “how on Earth he could”, he denied it at first. But soon admitted it all, and tried to give himself an excuse that he idolized Bond. Still, his artists’ responses were rather lame, like “oh, we are sad to hear it, but we can’t do anything”. Tell me it didn’t go almost unnoticed.
As for Ratner, I referred to homophobic remarks he made to Ellen Page. Haven’t heard for him sexually exploiting someone.
When I mentioned Asia Argento, my point was on the credibility of accuser (her); I know her story scandal went viral and public known soon after its reveal. Now, what’s left of careers of these three (Argento, Ratner and Esquivel) is open to speculation. Let’s say maybe they won’t work anymore in the mainstream, but turn on indie. Maybe. They won’t be the first who found work after their dirty secrets are exposed (like Polanski for e.x).
But, what we do know about those cases that aren’t any clear. I mentioned Luc Besson because I know several women said “he abused them”, but where is the corroboration of that? I admit, I didn’t make up the list of the accused, so I have no idea who else is involved. But it can’t be they are all guilty. So I won’t jump immediately when someone points a finger and say “he did it”. Maybe someone we will compile a list of all proven or potential offenders.
I don’t see what this has to do with politics. I just observe what others do. I am in fact very anti political. But it’s no secret that in Hollywood and comic industry everything resolves around politics. Well, and money. And don’t get me start on whole Bill Maher deriding comics thing. People are quicker there to raise alarm when someone is anti-liberal.
Jesus, dude. How about doing some research then? This was really big news in the context of metoo…
I haven’t followed the chronology of this, but like I said, the artists’ left the book in protest.
Well, she obviously was telling the truth about Weinstein. That she herself is not just a victim of sexual attacks but also a perpetrator doesn’t make him innocent at all.
That’s kind of the point of metoo, though, isn’t it? That the era of Hollywood just ignoring sexual attacks is over.
Well, there’s a police investigation ongoing, so we will see about that. But when there are multiple victims pointing to the same man, that is already a pretty high level of corroboration, actually.
Well, as I said, the examples you used seemed to be politically motivated. If they weren’t, fair enough.
Well, no. But neither have they all been run out of town with pitchforks. The examples we’ve discussed here were cases that turned out to be well-founded (including Besson, in all likelihood). So you’re going by a general gut feeling and can’t give an example for this supposed “witch-hunt” - someone whose carreer has been seriously impacted when all there was was a random person pointing at him. I think the fact that you can’t give an example for that while we have looked at quite a few examples of actual abuse now means that it’s not a witch hunt but a valid movement.
To be fair there is some context here. Even if not many of the ‘comics scene’ spoke out it’s probably because they didn’t know who the hell he was. Before that book Esquival did very little beyond small press stuff and a one-shot for GI Joe.
If it was Brian Bendis or John Romita Jr it’s another matter but it wasn’t a huge deal here either and we’re scrabbling for details in this discussion because he’s a very peripheral player. Nobody should feel compelled that they have to speak for someone they don’t know that may have vaguely similar politics.
As I said, we still yet have to see. It depends on how the cases progress. If anything I learned, is people who give their support for the accused, because, well, they are well known. I mean, nobody fired Bryan Singer over directing Red Sonja.
Well, people lie. And I mean, how big chance is that Hollywood or people associated in any way with Hollywood are predators? Beside Weinstein ofcourse. What happened with presumption of innocence?
Well, I wrote about this above. It started with noble intention, but I quickly lost interest in this, due to “who says what”.
To what end? Has anyone gained personally from making an accusation? Speaking up immediately gets you called a liar, a troublemaker, and/or blamed for what you suffered.
We’ll have to wait and see what it’s like when the product is released - the film is not a blip on the radar yet; it’s hardly a marquee franchise.
Politics clearly doesn’t play the role you suggest; the big scores have been Weinstein, Louis CK, Kevin Spacey, Woody Allen (maybe) - all liberal leaning as far as I’m aware. Meanwhile look who the President is.