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Diversity in Modern Society


#3074

I mean, the text doesn’t support her knowing what it means, so yeah.

Plus, her solution to the “problem” is to reinstitute the draft!


#3075

Let me see if I’ve got this straight: masculinity isn’t automatically bad, but if it causes bad stuff then that’s bad. And we call that specific case of causing bad stuff, not all masculinity in general, “toxic”?

That seems so obvious, I’m almost sure I’ve completely misunderstood.


#3076

I think it’s actually that funny feeling you get when you watch a Britney Spears video.


#3077

Kinda. It’s that there are ingrained elements in what we define as “being a man” that are really psychologically unhealthy.


#3078

That’s not what she said.

Unless we bring back the draft and distribute the burden of military or national service onto every American as an obligation of citizenship, warfare remains the obligation of very few with the implicit agreement that their well-being and successful reintegration into civil society is the responsibility of all.


#3079

While I definitely agree that it’s the responsibility of the Military to properly assist soldiers in their return to civilian life, the idea that “distributing the burden of military service as an obligation of citizenship” isn’t an alternative. It just means that you have a more people with the same potential social and economic issues, only they didn’t choose to have them.


#3080

It’s a little bit funny, this feeling inside
I’m not one of those who can easily hide…


#3081

#3082

I considered, but then decided against using the phrase “that’s some Starship Troopers bullshit right there”, and now here we are.


#3083

You’re welcome?


#3084

You’re focusing on the beginning of the statement and not on the latter. She writes quite a bit about the civil-military divide and how to bridge that gap. Her point is that until everyone serves, we as a society owe it to those who do to help reintegration into civilian society.


#3085

Like I said, I agree totally with that sentiment.

Not that it has anything to do with toxic masculinity.


#3086

… and I thought I was only one dropping lyrics here!

:grinning:


#3087

There’s many western nations that still have mandatory military service. Those places aren’t really Starship Troopers. I’m not sure if a year of military service is a good thing or a bad thing. The folks I know who’ve done it complain about losing a year, but it’s typically a teenage year where they’d just be working a minimum wage job anyway. Several speak highly of the experience, it taught them independence and how to fit in with others - it was less about the military and more about learning how to be an adult.

It’d never happen in the US though. I can only imagine the response if someone suggested all kids have to serve in the military for a year.


#3088

Most of the nations that still have national service have expanded it so it’s not just military these days. It’s basically a year or two towards the end of your teens/early 20s where you work for the government.

The Starship Troopers bullshit would have been a reference to her saying “as an obligation of citizenship”, and the movie does have the line “service guarantees citizenship”. It’s worth noting that she said “military or national service”, but the novel suggested and Heinlein confirmed that Federal Service wasn’t just military. Most modern national service requirements do not restrict citizen status of people who refuse to serve.


#3089

Nope, pretty sure that that’s pretty much it.


#3090

A number of Dutch protestant pastors and members of the SGP political party have signed something called the Nashville statement, condemning homosexuality as sinful. It’s caused a bit of a commotion, which is somewhat surprising for me because I thought it was pretty much common knowledge some of the orthodox protestant churches here weren’t all that keen on our gays. These guys represent a tiny part of the protestant church here, most protestants in the Netherlands are pretty liberal.

There are some places in the Netherlands, in our Bible Belt, which are still very conservative, however the people subscribing to this ideology represent less than 5 % of the population. The SGP party which represents these ideas normally gets only about 2 % in the elections. Some villages here in the province of South Holland have an SGP mayor.


#3091

While masculinity is not a universal construct, the dominant Western view includes characteristics such as stoicism, strength, self-reliance, independence, power, and invulnerability. As with anything, taken to the extreme, none of these qualities mete themselves out productively or effectively (stay tuned for Part 3). However, such traits are beneficial, arguably essential, to the waging and winning of war. To negate them in a society that has spent much of its existence engaged in some type of armed conflict is both narrow-minded and foolhardy.

These characteristics are very important even outside of waging war - I’m not sure anyone worth paying attention to is suggesting we do away with those characteristics altogether; they aren’t what toxic masculinity are about.


#3092

Whats’ the over/under on how many of them are secretly gay?


#3093

It is not the norm for Protestant priests or ministers to be homosexually inclined, and though I find it personally absurd (full disclosure: I find all human existence absurd), the essential rules of any religious belief or behavior are absolute.

Once one applies “common sense” to dogmatic philosophies like codified religious practice then the practice itself is nullified. Ironically, though, this was the essence of Protestantism in the first place. As soon as Luther challenged Church doctrine, the central ideal of The Church fragmented.

At heart, everyone is their own church now and all the priests, ministers and preachers have fallen on the spectrum between con artists to used car salesmen without the authority of God Almighty on their side. “Essentially,” they only survive by making each individual fear the consequences of taking God’s authority onto ourselves.