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Diversity in Modern Society


#2992

Nah, we’re done. Will said it best.


#2993

The rest of the internet is there to indulge pointless questions to which everyone knows the answers already.

Not here.

And not just because it’s Christmas Eve.

Just, not here ever.


#2994

Returning (briefly) to Mortensen;


#2995

#2996

I know it’s probably wrong, but I loooove that word… :smile:


#2997

#2998

Casting…

When Nick Fury was changed to reflect Samuel Jackson it actually made the character popular. Fury was a somewhat minor character to begin with… As for the FF movie changing Johnny Storm came across as forced and a gimmick and I was turned off. Some cases it all works and others it falls flat.

Just saying…


#2999

And it seemed half-hearted since they left his sister Sue white. Nothing wrong with adoption, but she still could have been anything.

On top of that…

Almost all white faces in the background at a New York high school - a place where kids from Asian and Indian parents excel as far as high level science related classes.

Now, a common complaint is that there aren’t “enough” extras of color to fill a scene, but in reality it just takes a little effort.


#3000

I think you have to look at the execution over the concept with most of it. The Ultimates was a very well regarded comic, Fant4Stic a pretty much panned movie. As with the New X-Men back in the 70s it’s always an easy sell if the material is good, nobody much bothers with the politics of it all if the story is gripping.

To Johnny’s point, that always got me with the original Ultimate Spider-Man run, Peter was in school in Queens in New York. A quick Google of Queens demographics says:

According to the 2010 Census, 39.7% of the population was White, 19.1% Black or African American , 22.9% Asian , 13.7% from some other race, and 4.5% of two or more races. 27.5% of Queens’s population was of Hispanic , Latino, or Spanish origin (they may be of any race).

Yet every kid in that comic was white. Bagley has to take some of the hit for that with background characters at least but I think it was always an error of omission and corrected in the second volume by Bendis. So while some trumpet ‘forced diversity’ we also have to acknowledge that not presenting a mixed picture in pretty much any major city is compete misrepresentation of the reality.


#3001

As for extras of color, Woody Allen back in the day was severely criticized for not having people of color in his movies. Most of his movies at the time consisted of white Jewish intellectual types living in NY’s Upper West Side (predating Seinfeld btw) and for an area that has black people, in his movies there wasn’t even an extra walking by in the street… I mentioned Seinfeld too because the same goes for his show.

Friends was the same thing until I believe one of the guys was dating a black woman in the latter seasons.
Still, it is supposed to be New York…

Some shows and movies make an effort in the main character having a black friend or black bartender type and some movies like Die Hard have the black cop come through in the end and the audience cheers like the Will Smith character in Independence Day knocking out the alien.


#3002

Will Smith is exceptional in his roles except for cases like Bagger Vance where he is essentially the “Magical Negro” where the sole black man in the entire cast is also the wisest and there to mentor the hero to success.

Essentially, 90% of Morgan Freeman’s career.


#3003

… and Sidney Poitier.


#3004

In some ways, I think including a character like that actually limits casting other characters of color. I mean, am I missing something here - but thinking about it, in the most popular movies where Morgan Freeman plays a strong supporting character - from Shawshank to The Dark Knight - can anyone remember any other character of color? I mean, in the Dark Knight movies, other than Morgan Freeman, I can’t think of many characters who weren’t white (one mob boss, right?) and other than the main female leads, many supporting characters who weren’t men.


#3005

As for Bagger Vance movie, it was criticized because it was set at a time when violence against blacks (lynchings, bombings) were high and this “Magical Negro” doesn’t help his own people on those issues but helps a white guy with his golf swing and girlfriend.

Didn’t go over well.


#3006

Christopher Nolan’s movies across the board are basically giant sausage fests.

I’m not even sure Dunkirk had a speaking role for a woman at all!


#3007

I think it did, there were women in the ship giving sandwiches. But, it’s not their story. Nolan chose to shoot it from very personal point of view.


#3008

To be fair Dunkirk has some in-built excuses for minimal female representation. There was quite a storm about the lack of non-white faces too but when I looked into the actual history what they showed wasn’t far off. There were enormous numbers of Commonwealth troops in the second world war and French troops from their colonies but not many of them at that situation. They were fighting in other areas of the world.

Robert isn’t wrong though on the overall sausage-fest tone of Nolan’s films.


#3009

When I think about it, I can’t recall seeing persons of color in Saving Private Ryan and was scrimpy on showing women characters.


#3010

Is this really suggestive of a problem, in a film that takes place almost exclusively on the battlefields of World War II? Do you have the same concerns about The Great Escape and The Bridge on the River Kwai?


#3013

Yeah, for older films, and movies that want to be “realistic” it is hard to support colorblind casting. If you want to reflect the reality - then it doesn’t work.

However, if people are making a piece of adventure entertainment even set in Rome or the Middle Ages, there is no good reason to insist on racial veracity. Merlin can be played by a black woman, Julius Caesar could be played by an English man from Chinese descent. Unless there is a compelling reason for realism, then casting should consider everyone who could do the role.

Even in educational cartoons or videos about history, I don’t think there is a need to keep the race white since the point is to reach everyone, so it’s okay to me to have black and asian faces in Medieval Scotland or Roman Gaul because those are going to be the people watching as well.