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Diversity in Modern Society


#2070

I think Geordie, Cockney, Scouse, and Brummie all fall under the category “English”. That’s why the term ethnicity is a bit vague and not always helpful.

You can go as far with this as you want. You could say the people on the other side of the street are a different ethnicity.


#2071

looks suspiciously over the street

:confused:


#2072

Ethnicity can really be defined many ways. In the UK they don’t like to use the word ‘race’ very much so I had some confusion with an American friend who viewed the word ‘ethnic’ differently to me, he felt it meant more a cultural thing. The UK now tends to use the term BAME (Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic) to really refer to non-white people.

Within that white group there are genetic differences they can track at DNA level but you’d not really be able to tell from looking or listening to anyone.

The term ‘Celtic’ for example usually used to describe the people of Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Cornwall and Brittany is really more a cultural construct after so many millennia. Genetically they can’t find great connections between them but in culture and language you can.


#2073

Well, yes.

It’s absolute risk (still very low) vs relative risk (high).

FBI data suggests LGBT+ people (as of 2014) are the group most likely to be targeted in hate crime incidents.

We’ve seen a similar rise in frequency in the UK as well; the difference is that murder is a very rare outcome in the UK.


#2074

Wiki gives 5 different sorts of ethnicity:

Depending on which source of group identity is emphasized to define membership, the following types of (often mutually overlapping) groups can be identified:

I think it’s largely a political or cultural construct. The Flemish for instance aren’t that different from Dutch, we have the same official language (there are a lot of different dialects both in Belgium and the Netherlands, but if you listen to the Flemish news they speak exactly the same standard Dutch dialect as we do.) However through history we took a different course and that becomes part of our ethnic identity.


#2075

This reminds me of something: I am still on my Daily Show (as podcast) binge, and there was a guest, Jonah Goldberg, whose points about identity politics reminded me of our discussion. I think his views of capitalism also line up with yours, and his main point in this interview is that it’s important to remember the ideals and strengths of Western society and praising them and standing by them.

I don’t agree with everything he’s saying, but I thought he made his points well, and the interview was interesting - especially as he’s coming from an angle of common sense at things and criticising all sides.


#2076

According to the FBI stats there were 787 attacks on male homosexuals in 2016, the latest year I could find FBI stats. There are 325 million people in the US.
These stats on attacks in England and Wales (Ireland and Scotland are on other pages) aren’t much more promising.
The US number (and from the UK) is still too high but the fear of being attacked in the US because you’re gay is unlikely.

Edited to add: I’m not trying to preach to you on this; I’m not in your shoes and can’t know what it’s like growing up gay and afraid you’ll be attacked for it. I’m just saying the US isn’t the dangerous place it can be made out to be.


#2077

Yes.


#2078

I don’t know why you feel the need to argue with me Mike, we’re practically saying the same thing.


#2079

My reactions to those stats of 787 only indicate issues of Federal involvement. Whatever, I am pretty darned sure the numbers would be lower than expected. Why? 9/11 unleashed a Fear on the American public. Even when Pearl Harbor was attacked Hawaii was a Territory and not yet a State, and it was 'way out in the middle of the ocean; not in the center of our biggest city. Since then, Fear has had its way. We see racism and bigotry flaring, and what is that other that Fear Of Other magnified and somehow made socially acceptable in a subset of the fearful and narcissistic? Speaking of which, the increased isolation from the advent of cell phones and social media (they do isolate, think about it) has set off a plague of narcissism so intense folks found and elected a malignant narcissist President.

Use the word “arousal” instead of fear. In this sense there is no sexual connotation, as we speak of reaction to stimuli. (Technically, we’re just taking sex out for the sake of this point, as the element is always present.) Much more Fight or Flight. The thing is, humans have rather adapted to a third and fourth response, Attraction or Repulsion. These matters affect the individual in a cumulative fashion that can be seen in mass in social subsets. It’s a matter of not asking people what they are afraid of (they will lie every time); but what they hate. Society has come to the point where hate is seen as a virtue while fear is scorned. Flat out, this is because hate is seen as manly and fear as feminine; and the war between the sexes is just more fear of the unknown and self-doubt all fed on the massive bed of lies that is history and bad information learned early. FDR was quite correct, and the answer to Fear Itself is to make a friend of fear. Let it be an alarm system we are aware of and can turn off as we wish. This business of constantly chasing after alarms that will not cease going off has got to stop. And each fear is a separate alarm. We are feeding on fear, and it is making our minds and our emotions fat and sloppy. I can deal with a fat belly, I cannot deal with being fat-headed. As far as I can see, if we boil down all the issues the whole world is dealing with, they all rather come down for fear and/or narcissism.

Which makes us sane folks crazy.


#2080

Sláinte


#2081

The Divided States of Hysteria.


#2082

Re-reading my post I realize it might not come across as intended. The winky emoji wasn’t there but implied and hope you read it as such.


#2083

#2084

“Irrational, indefensible and manifestly arbitrary” … hugely significant in international terms as Indian Supreme Court strikes down the law criminalising homosexuality.


#2085

Was watching Masterchef last night as usual. One of the contestants is from China, married to a fellow named David. Last night was when the family member visited the competition, and the pure love between the two of them was simply delightful to behold. There’s a whole lot of difference between lust and love, and it was just obvious that these two were a match. Then I think, here’s a whole country absolutely drenched in sexuality, but somehow overpopulation or poverty or wars or just being stupid humans or whatever has formed a country where forms of love were forbidden. As an established culture and ethos, change is really difficult. I can but salute this small step in decriminalization and hope the whole country continues its path towards adulthood. (And noting we are in the USA undergoing considerable teen angst at the moment.)


#2086

India is a bit different to China there Miqque. Same continent though so that’s something.

China doesn’t offer much protection to gay couples but homosexuality has been legal there for over 20 years.


#2087

The chef fellow and his spouse had managed to escape China. I have no idea if they’ve ever been to India. Here they have a partial solution to a population problem and have to flee. I know a few Indian folks, and with that many folks its like someone is either watching you or sleeping in your shirt pocket all the time. Just comparing.

Me, I’m a low-population-density, colder weather type of person. So naturally I was born and lived in Los Angeles and was constantly uncomfortable and felt out of place. That being a fact, I wonder how much agitation and self-denial people endure by simply living in a climate they hate. Since I moved to Colorado in 2000, I happily adapted to real seasons (SoCal has none - hot and hotter). I liked a 50K town (now about 110K, and I look at small mountain towns). Made good friends. Disappointed at social and political scenes; people remain ignorant, I made a huge change to survive (all the hydrocarbons at surface pressure was causing constant problems) and have not really looked back. Wish I could travel more, but surviving has finally become pleasant.

We’ve had another diaspora from Syria and surrounds, and one relatively minor point I have to wonder about is how many of those folks find they prefer other climates and societies to the ones they fled? How many think “It’s much cooler and more pleasant, and the people are not at war!”


#2088

The interesting thing here is that it’s not really a case of India westernising, but rather decolonising:

A formal judgement on the law, known as Section 377, is still pending and the hope is that the court will repeal this toxic colonial hangover.

This legacy dates back 157 years to a dark part of imperial history. In 1860, the British Raj – the empire in India – had been in place for three years. The British East India Company had given way to crown control after the 1857 Sepoy Rebellion and justified its conquest with a promise of bringing “civilisation” to its colonies. Part of this civilising rhetoric was tied in with reforming the ways in which desire and love were practised and accepted.

Awadh, in modern-day Lucknow, had a ruler who would practice living as the opposite gender at times, including changing sexual partners. Bengali novels from the late 19th century such as Indira describe lesbian relationships. Texts such as the Kama Sutra contain advice for consensual same-sex intercourse. And Sufi Muslim texts in East India explicitly mention homosexual male romance.

This clashed with the British crown’s idea of how a society should be. In a system dictated by Victorian Christian morality, any form of intimacy that was not geared towards having and raising children was unacceptable. Homosexual desire was the worst of these offences.


#2089

Spent the day today at Herts Pride, talking about the Rainbow NHS Badge project I’m doing.

We got lots of detailed, eloquent, constructive and passionate responses to our main question … but a 14 year old nailed it in a single word :heart: