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Diversity in Modern Society


#2007

I can’t speak for Mike but I’m curious as well. Do you mean Europe is homogeneous in its racial make up, cultural make up or both?


#2008

No; genuinely curious.


#2009

Yes glorifying culture can be a problem, when it leads to feelings of ethnic superiority, rather than identity based it should be values based.

I don’t necessarily subscribe to the idea that “the West is the best.” But some things in the West made Western society great. The rule of law and democracy, individual freedoms, the enlightenment, the refinement of the scientific method. These are relatively late developments and it is probably true that in earlier eras the West was not the greatest place to live. Also it would be wrong to assume that these values are uniquely Western.

I also think that in art, philosophy and religion the East might be as good as or better than the West. Buddhism is incredibly rich, in terms of writings and different teachings and interpretations probably richer than Christianity, Taoism is amazing, and I like traditional Chinese and Japanese art and architecture better than Western art.


#2010

Not homogenous, but compared to US… Europe is continent (I almost wrote country xD) of mostly its native people. White, Christian. But yeah, between Europe and US, I’d say differences are both in US favor - In racial and culturological terms.


#2013

In the meantime, Vox Day tried to steal ComicsGate; supposedly EVS destroyed him live. (I couldn’t post EVS tweet - don’t know it works).
But here:

That guy is scary.


#2014

This map is five years old but I don’t think it’s too far off: A revealing map of the world’s most and least ethnically diverse countries

That link lead to this one as a follow up: 5 insights on the racial tolerance and ethnicity maps, from an ethnic conflict professor


#2015

So you’re basing it on an impression?

Just for context: I work as part of a team of 25 or so.

We have three consultants: a white English male, a white Scots male, and an Afro-Caribbean woman.

Our team have a mixture of nationalities and ethnicities including Indian, Pakistani, Polish, Bangladeshi, Albanian, Afro-Caribbean, Nigerian, Eritrean, Somali, a Texan, Portuguese, Spanish and Norwegian. We’ve an equally diverse spread of religions.

Now, that’s the NHS, in London, both of which are things which increase diversity … but I’d need a bit more persuading than just your feeling that Europe is less diverse than the US. I think it will very much depend on your frame of reference for diversity - hence my curiosity.

(One of my absolute favourite moments in relation to this happened when I was a fellow at Great Ormond Street. An (extremely skilled, competent and professional) colleague had gone to see a patient. She came out after 5 minutes, because the father was insisting (shouting!) that his child was seen “by a proper English doctor, not this foreigner”. (She is Nigerian, with English language skills far better than the ranting father)

The consultant on the ward, duly summoned and lined up the entire team in that day, and ran through their nationalities:

Consultant 1: South African
Consultant 2: Indian
Consultant 3: South African
Consultant 4: Belgian

Fellow 1: Irish
Fellow 2: Scots
Registrar 1: Nigerian
Registrar 2: Irish

SHO (more junior): Afro-Caribbean

He then paused, said “We do have ONE more member of the team … and he’s a London boy, born and bred. It is only his third day as a doctor, and normally we wouldn’t let him see patients unsupported quite yet but if you insist…”, to which the frothing father said “YEAH! I want him, the Englishman”

The boss duly beckoned for Abdul to come out - a 2nd generation Bangladeshi Londoner, with a HUGE grin on his face.

At which point the father blew his top, while the consultant calmly explained to him that he would not allow prejudice to dictate care in his hospital, and that his child would be seen by the original doctor)


#2016

Unfortunately, the second map is low detailed. As for the first, I am weak on the green color, but it seems to me that the more diverse racially, the more incidental country is.


#2017

That’s an odd thing to say and not one I’d want to be associated with.


#2018

That’s a map I’ve looked at before. There’s no easy want to measure diversity because it means different things to different people - by race, by religion, by sexual preference, by native language, by country of origin and so on.

In the context of this discussion I’d assume the measure is non white. The US is 40% non white, with more than 50% of new births being non white. Europe doesn’t measure race like the US does (it’s not the same kind of hotbed issue) so it’s not easy to pin down a number, but in the UK for example 19% of the population is non white.


#2019

Agreed.

An equally quick Google produces a few responses to that map and the probable flaws with it:

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-America-so-much-more-ethnically-diverse-than-Europe


#2020

Which is a very simplistic way, as you say, of assessing diversity.

I wouldn’t assume that, which is why I was interested in the basis for the original comment in the first place.


#2021

Dude, Europe is not just Western, but Eastern as well.

I didn’t say that. But wasn’t that what those two maps imply? I may read the map wrongly though, it looks very indiscernible on the cellphone.


#2022

At this point, Vox Day is a joke. He was laughed out of Gamergate, and unsuccessfully tried to game the Hugo awards to the point that most of the trolls he was able to recruit got bored and wandered off long before he quit trying.


#2023

There’s such a gulf between the US and UK though that you could include every other measure of diversity for those remaining white people and it wouldn’t close the gap. The US is a country of immigration, most of the current population growth is due to immigration (and I’m not even factoring in the Illegals who live here and aren’t part of any census). I don’t see how the US being a more diverse nation than most countries could be debated.


#2024

FT_Diversity_Map


#2025

I am not sure what incidental means, but I think it is wrong to assume ethnic diversity is more prone to war or other forms of violence. I can’t see that second map though.

I think there are some cases where ethnic diversity led to conflict but that is not a necessity. In Yugoslavia it did, and things got more quiet when the country was cut up along ethnic lines. However I think there are also counter examples where ethnic diversity doesn’t lead to conflict. I think ideological diversity is more likely to lead to conflict than ethnic.


#2026

He didn’t compare the US to a country though; he compared it to Europe.


#2027

I’m not convinced that map supports your proposition :slight_smile:


#2028

Yugoslavia got torn up between religion, economical crisis and it’s eager leaders, but ethnically, more or less, it’s the same people.

Yeah, they put darker shades on Russia and even more on India.