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Diversity in Modern Society


Is Proud Boys now white supremacist? What nonsense.


The article says they’re “America first” but hints they’re white supremacist. I always thought they were a bit of both, but I don’t follow news about them.


I think they’re “pro-Western culture” or something like that. That’s not being white supremacist. I think there’s some word inflation going on, white supremacist is saying white people are better than non-white, I don’t believe that is part of Proud Boys’ philosophy.


Pro-western culture has, unfortunately, been code for racism for a long time. Western European culture is straight, white, Christian. There’s a lot of anti-Muslim stuff posted in it’s name for example, and the crossover with “Muslim” and “non-white” is a popular one in those circles.

But I think the simple fact is that being black or white doesn’t dictate the kind of politics you’re drawn to. That leads to contradictions where people support ideologies that aren’t going to work in their favour, but they don’t confront that fact.


Maybe it used to be. Even that is doubtful though, there have been Jews in Western Europe since the Roman era.

If racists use “pro-Western” to hide their racism I guess that sucks. However there is no reason to be ashamed to say you’re pro-Western, not should it be assumed to be racist.



I agree. I don’t think it’s right to suggest being proud of the West is in any way racist. At some point you’ve got to look at the West over the last 50+ years and give credit to the vast improvements it’s led to for all of humanity. Social, technological and political, all the greatest progressive goals have been spearheaded by Western nations. Including embracing diversity and all cultures into a common melting pot.


Yeah the West has done plenty of things wrong, but there are good things in our history (and present) too. I think you can applaud and promote the good things while acknowledging the bad.

Likewise it is OK to say you’re pro-Japanese despite the horrors Japan has committed, pro-African despite the problems Africa has, etc.


As with many things in life there’s what should be and then there’s what is.


That article is part of the problem. They’re taking guys who are proud of their country and lumping them with Neo Nazis.


Yes, unfortunately, white supremacists have co-opted phrases like “western culture” and “western civilization” to promote their racial ideology. It’s generally used by the softer variety, but after listening to or reading words and arguments of the proponents of “western civilization,” you can easily pick up on whether or not the speaker is a racist or xenophobe. It’s another dog whistle that sounds benign and banal, but certain audiences know exactly what the underlying message is.


I think there’s a certain self-assuredness from some people that the frame of reference they apply to the world is the only valid one, and that to question it is inherently wrong.



I think there’s more to it than that. Equally progressive types have used Western Society as a slander against overpollution, rampant capitalism, consumption driven societies and using third world labor. There’s lots of guilt that’s been floating around over the past few decades surrounding Western progression, warts getting mixed up with the good stuff.

As a net result you don’t get too many people able to speak confidently about the strengths of Western society. It’s in all sides interest to tell you the world is at fault and they’re the ones with the answers to fix it.


“Tarrio and other people of color at the far-right rallies claim institutional racism no longer exists in America. In their view, blacks are to blame for any lingering inequality because they are dependent on welfare, lack strong leadership, and believe Democrats who tell them “You’re always going to be broke. You’re not going to make it in society because of institutional racism,” as one mixed-race man put it.”

Are those too articles made up? Because then it’s too bad there isn’t emo for covering your head in shame.

To be honest, I don’t see anything bad in any culture that glorifies its own, but not at the price of others. But from this article, I think people from this article need to check their heads. Immediately.

As for multiculturalism, it’s dead - according to Angela Merkel. But we talk about Europe, where is less diversity than in US.


Genuinely curious; how are you quantifying diversity to make this comparison?


Isn’t it obvious? Where do you have more diverse people, in Europe or US?


Also makes me think (free-association) of one of my favourite random tongue-in-cheek quotes about Europe, from Ken Macleod:

“Hey, this is Europe. We took it from nobody; we won it from the bare soil that the ice left. The bones of our ancestors, and the stones of their works, are everywhere. Our liberties were won in wars and revolutions so terrible that we do not fear our governors: they fear us. Our children giggle and eat ice-cream in the palaces of past rulers. We snap our fingers at kings. We laugh at popes. When we have built up tyrants, we have brought them down. And we have nuclear fucking weapons.”


No, it’s not obvious.

How are you quantifying it?


Are you joking with me? Because I get that impression.