Comics Creators

DC Comics - The Rebirth is Here


Sorry if it’s come off as personal to you…again…

But we’re discussing Darkseid War’s merits and it being some of Johns’ best writing came up and I just put out two points as to why it is one of his worst outings.

I guess I should apologize if any of my criticisms about Darkseid War have led others to think I’m being critical of them. I don’t want to blur the line between exclaiming thoughts on why I think something is bad, and the bad area of stating that someone is lesser for then liking it.

I hope I wasn’t doing that, and sorry to @Vikram and @Rocket foremost there.


Its not come off as personal to me.

But it was a needless negative conversation.

It’s fair enough if you have just read something, come on and given your thoughts or it’s a dedicated discussion thread on the books.

But Don came on basically saying he enjoyed it and it was a good story. There was no need to reply that it isn’t good, that it’s bad.

I see a lot of posts of people writing about tv, music, movies and comics that I think are crap, the tendency is to just keep scrolling.

I’m not trying to dictate conversation on here and I stress again that this not personal, you’ll see I am liking posts of yours on a daily basis - if it’s was a personal thing I wouldn’t be able to find the distance to appreciate what you have posted when I do.

I’m just not a big fan of the negativity for the sake of it.

Plus don’t encourage David, he’s a miserable old bastard as it is.


I see your point.

I just don’t really see it as negative, as you’ve probably gathered from other times, since its just focused on the work itself and not our own opinions of said work. Mainly using their posts to springboard more angles.

The conversation has shifted to Darkseid War today, and I have thoughts on Darkseid War…so posting about Darkseid War seemed like a very apt thing to do. Again, as long as its about the work and not each other.

But I know that its not a distinction held by everyone, and I don’t want to steer how people post either so I amended my reply to apologize to the others if they felt similarly to you about whether I was being negative.


Damn right. I’ve already started with the moaning at the way they’re seeding it through other comics I don’t read :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ll probably still buy it though.



Slow day for Bleeding Coooooooooooooooool.


Oh shit that’s Bleeding Cool?
From that headline I could have guessed CBR


Well, both have nigh-on identical crap design now so they’re awfully similar.


Top 15 Ways In Which BC and CBR Are Similar

Number 7 will amaze you!


You forgot the link.


You’ve finally got me Ronnie.


I visited the site this morning after not going there for some time.

I didn’t think it was possible but I think it has gotten worse.

The lack of basic proofreading and research seems to have spread from Rich to all of his other contributors. It seems the “stories” and “rumors” are what anybody can pull off social media and real news sites and repost.

AS @Jim has said before, it appears Rich has burned through all of his inside sources at various companies and he’s left with shit in his hands.


Busiek does raise a good point about Superman and Batman.


Finished Clean Room today.

From what is said at the back of the book I don’t think there is going to be a ‘second season’ contrary to what we were told previously.

Like Unfollow, you can tell then it’s been wrapped up rather abruptly.
And like Rob Williams, Gail Simone has done a decent job in tying it up.

Probably is, instead of having 2 classic runs, that could have been picked up as movies or tv shows, resulting in the collections being more ‘evergreen’ selling for years - we now have 2 initially great, but completely flawed series due to their premature end points.

I don’t know who to blame…the comics community for not buying them despite the great concepts, reviews, talent involved (2 of the best 'breakthrough arists since Frank Quitely came on the scene in my opinion) and positive word of mouth…or DC/Warner/Vertigo for not having the balls to keep running what they must know are 2 great series to see if time would see more sales.

Probably no-one is to blame, there’s too many comics out there for the good stuff to spotted sometimes, and the company are run by bean counters at the end of the day. Doesn’t make me any less disappointed though.


It’s a chicken/egg thing and it starts with the fact that DC just trained people to buy Vertigo in trades, and it cripples their chances of having good, long series. And they stopped marketing the books as single-issue titles. It started in the late 00s and I sort of think of it as “Crossing Midnight Syndrome” as that was one of the biggest screw jobs by DC and the first one that made me think “what the hell” when it was canned early. But if you look at the books from the same time period:

Air (24 issues)
American Virgin (23 issues)
Crossing Midnight (19 issues)
The Exterminators (sold to fans as a 50-issue series but canned at 30)
Greek Street (16 issues)
iZombie (28 issues)
Loveless (24 issues)

And now Clean Room and Unfollow, 18 issues a piece.

A few titles that debuted in the late 00s were allowed long runs (American Vampire, Scalped, Sweet Tooth, Unwritten) but not many.

DC needs to put some consideration into what they want this imprint to be, if they even want it to continue. They clearly should stop accepting pitches for stories that run longer than 18-24 issues.


Nobody is talking about these books but I should add that Red Thorn was also cancelled and The Dark and Bloody is at the same cancellation numbers. The Sheriff of Baghdad is now called a 12-issue miniseries which it may have been all along but I don’t recall. There’s also Art Ops, Slash & Burn, Survivor’s Club, and Last Gang in Town, which were all so irrelevant that nobody even talked about them and they couldn’t crack the top 300 in sales.

So DC muffed that entire Vertigo launch, at a time when their superhero line has a lot of readers and excitement around it. Pretty unacceptable.


On some of these books…

Dark and Bloody was always a 6 issue mini. It’s also pretty good if you like horror comics.

Red Thorn seems to be cancelled, I thought it started pretty well. It once they introduced the fantasy characters it just seemed too over familiar and silly an idea and I lost interest. I think it was too quick a move stateside for David Bailly, who could have done with a bit more time learning his craft at 2000ad because getting his own creator owned series.
There’s a really good writer in there, but he’s not quite there yet.

Sheriff of Baghdad was always a limited series, I remember Tom King talking about it on 11 o’clock comics, it was called Sherifff of Babylon at the time but they had to change the name because of some band I think.
I don’t think that was ever marketed properly. It should have been a bigger hit, given how good it is and the talent involved. Mitch Gerrard is now drawing Batman and King’s upcoming Mr Miracle series.

Slash and Burn I didn’t enjoy at all, i found it confusing and boring. A bit like Spencer’s current series in the Megazine, which is impossible to follow.

Art Ops benefited hugely from Allred’s art, but he idea was limited. I enjoyed it quite a bit to begin with. It reminded me of Milligan and Morrison stuff, but the concept is a bit one note and it got boring fast.
Pity, because he did some interesting things with the characters.

Survivors Club was cut criminally short, it had an amazing start and Lauren Buekes is a pretty big name as an author, but she and her co writer didn’t quite nail the flow of a comic. I felt that it tailed off after starting so well, but for it to disappear so unceremoniously I found really insulting as a reader who had forked out for it every month. No explanation or fuck all.
I have double dipped on it and bought the collection though. There was some terrific horror ideas in there and I would like to read it all in one sitting to see how it holds together despite its premature extinction.

I thought The Last Gang In Town was garbage, but maybe just not for me. I’m not surprised how it tanked. I don’t know why they commissioned it to be honest.

It’s a real shame they fucked it up. Between Unfollow, Clean Room, Sheriff & Surviors Club they were producing a bunch of comics better and more original than most of Image’s new releases at the time, it’s a pity they couldn’t reward the talenet with the proper management of their books.

Vertigo could do with some PR lessons from Mark Millar. They can’t market themselves for shit.


Aye, Sheriff wasn’t always a limited series but King and Gerads had talked about a second season of the comic which seems to have been put on hold.



Seems there is a season 2 intended at some point.

It was originally meant to be 8 issues so I don’t know how it ended up being 12.
I feel like 12 was a good size for it as well. It didn’t seem truncated to me in anyway.

I’ve just read my post above and realise the book is Sheriff of Babylon, it was supposed to be called Sheriff of Baghdad. I wrote that the wrong way round.

I also missed Jacked by Eric Kripkt and John Higgins which was brilliant fun.


And cancelling the book only adds insult to injury from a trades perspective - if the series got kicked in the balls and shot in the head why buy it?

It’s especially bad that its Vertigo doing this, as they should know how trade sales work.